Saying no to people

ben_m_g

Guest101 wrote: »

And in return for this felxibility and support i presume the employee geting time and a half?

Thankfully I have a choice of bosses, I wouldnt choose your business if that was the attitude you had on flexible working.

Perhaps you should have arranged cover as part of an on-call arrangement? Or is poor management a trait that is easily avoided by claiming someone 'isnt a team player'

Sure, i'm a poor manager because I expect a degree of flexibility and to work as a team.:rotfl:


Companies do not have to approve holiday if it is not convenient for them, OT is a great way to assure people can have the time off they want without impacting the business.

My guys do no only get overtime, but I log every time an employee assists in this way especially on short notice, I use this for their yearly evaluations.

Guest101

zagfles wrote: »

So what if they assume it's them you don't like, not the stamps? What if next time they are going to a football museum and you love football? They might think "Guest101's not really interested in doing stuff with me, I won't bother asking".

Because that's the likely conclusion. People are rarely honest enough to say "sorry I don't want to socialise with you", so a simple "no thanks" without a reason is likely to lead to the assumption the reason is something they are too cowardly to express, like "I don't like you".

Whereas a simple "sorry - not really interested in stamps" wouldn't cause that problem.

It does, if you'll never need any of your shifts covering. It does, if you never want to interact with the chugger again.

Which is why I will treat the two situations above completely differently.

The friends I have arent so fickle as to think so. In fact i've not seen any of them in months. Since i rarely have time to socialise.

I needed a lift the other day, I phoned my friend (ive known him 11 years),

I said, 'are you about buddy, i need a lift to the next town over'.

He replied, 'Yes i'm about, but you've caught me just as i'm cooking tea, sorry no can do.'

If he'd just said, 'hey pal, sorry no can do'. - I wouldn't presume it's because he's offended for some reason. I'd presume he had other plans or didnt want to.

I feel secure enough that having not seen him in 2-3 months, i can drop him a call an ask for a lift, and as i plan to do, drop him a call in a week or 2 and go for a pint.

So whilst i dont have 22,000 'friends'. The ones I have arent going to be offended, nor offend me, if the answer is no thanks.

I'm not 13 and worried what everyone else thinks. I have far mor important things to consider.

missprice

ben_m_g wrote: »

Sure, i'm a poor manager because I expect a degree of flexibility and to work as a team.:rotfl:


Companies do not have to approve holiday if it is not convenient for them, OT is a great way to assure people can have the time off they want without impacting the business.

My guys do no only get overtime, but I log every time an employee assists in this way especially on short notice, I use this for their yearly evaluations.

So you presumably log when they say no, and when they give no reason for saying no?
And does that get used for evaluations too?
If it did I would really not want to work for you.
Not everyone wants overtime, its touted as some big deal, but its not.
If your company cannot cover holidays without others having to do overtime, there is something wrong.
Even in my totally carp job, if someone is off and no one wants to cover, I can ask for and get someone in.

Guest101

ben_m_g wrote: »

Sure, i'm a poor manager because I expect a degree of flexibility and to work as a team.:rotfl: - As i asked, does your team get time and a half for their flexibility?
I suspect you are a poor manager, for a multitude of reasons. But the one i mentioned is not having cover arranged in advance. Relying on flexibility is hardly a sound business model.


Companies do not have to approve holiday if it is not convenient for them, OT is a great way to assure people can have the time off they want without impacting the business. - yes they do, each employee must have opportunity to use their annual leave. And if you want a demoralised work force, your method is a great way to achieve it. Obviously you'll get to the end of the year and your whole workforce will be off for 5 weeks, but hey, flexibility.
Also Holidays / annual leave, isnt the same as time off. Since time off is unpaid. But you knew that...


My guys do no only get overtime, but I log every time an employee assists in this way especially on short notice, I use this for their yearly evaluations. So you use employees personal time to scrutinise their work? Surely their evaluations are based on yearly goals - presumebly these goals arent, must do 'x' amount overtime. must swap / cover 'y' amount of shifts?

The most shocking thing, is you think any of the above is acceptable. I would strongly suggest you do a work shadow of another manager, perhaps in a different company, who can teach you a few tricks.

FBaby

Very interesting what you say David in your last post. I personally am a strong believer that the truth is never as hurtful then the lies or the 'not said' however much the response might not be what I want to hear.

So to hypothetical question ' Hi how do you feel about going for lunch next week' I would feel much less offended by 'sorry but my time is very limited and I rather leave work early then spending an hour for a lunch break' than a ' no thank you' and nothing else.

Guest101

FBaby wrote: »

Very interesting what you say David in your last post. I personally am a strong believer that the truth is never as hurtful then the lies or the 'not said' however much the response might not be what I want to hear.

So to hypothetical question ' Hi how do you feel about going for lunch next week' I would feel much less offended by 'sorry but my time is very limited and I rather leave work early then spending an hour for a lunch break' than a 'no thank you' and nothing else.

No offence meant here.

If you were offended by a simple no thanks, we wouldnt be speaking

I guess its swings and roundabouts. if it's what your friends do, and you all expect it, then it works for you.

But that doesnt make me rude for saying no thanks.

You muight think rude, i might think over senstitive, but ultimately it's just different people.

David301

FBaby wrote: »

Very interesting what you say David in your last post. I personally am a strong believer that the truth is never as hurtful then the lies or the 'not said' however much the response might not be what I want to hear.

So to hypothetical question ' Hi how do you feel about going for lunch next week' I would feel much less offended by 'sorry but my time is very limited and I rather leave work early then spending an hour for a lunch break' than a ' no thank you' and nothing else.

I think maybe I could have worded my original question better, but it still works the same way.

"Can you do XYZ?" (something you dont want to do)
"no sorry im actually busy that day"
"oh? what are you doing?"

You then have to trump the request with an explanation as to why your personal thing is more important than the request, so as to not hurt feelings or look like an !!!!. Someone commented on the same thing further up

FBaby

That latest example to be is just showing an interest in that person's life. There are many lonely people around who no one cares about and lack anyone showing a bit of care.

I'm starting to wonder whether it is an introvert vs extrovert matter. I'm an extrovert and am genuinely interested in people ad a whole so when I ask questions is because I'm genuinely interested not because I intend to use the information one way or the other. Saying that if the response to 'so what are you doing' was 'nothing much' with lack of eye contact I certain wouldn't insist.

ben_m_g

missprice wrote: »

So you presumably log when they say no, and when they give no reason for saying no?
And does that get used for evaluations too?
If it did I would really not want to work for you.
Not everyone wants overtime, its touted as some big deal, but its not.
If your company cannot cover holidays without others having to do overtime, there is something wrong.
Even in my totally carp job, if someone is off and no one wants to cover, I can ask for and get someone in.

You presume wrongly, no if they say no, then that's the end of it.

Not every company has massive amounts of manpower, in certain areas there are specific skills that are only held by a certain number of people. This isn't ideal i grant you, but with hiring freezes there is little anyone can do (believe me I've tried).

When existing holidays and sickness happen at the same time, then, yes overtime is the only way forwards. (We are not pushing paper around here, making parts in excess of £50,000 each means every hour lost, is a massive concern).

The guys working for me are briefed that flexibility and overtime is a more than likely regular occurrence before taking the role, that is one of the reasons they have much better base pay and since my taking over have had pay increases every year, (when many of similar staff have had none).

The team is more than happy with me as a leader, i am regularly assessed through anonymous peer review. engagement has shot up, turn over has reduced to zero

missprice

FBaby wrote: »

That latest example to be is just showing an interest in that person's life. There are many lonely people around who no one cares about and lack anyone showing a bit of care.

I'm starting to wonder whether it is an introvert vs extrovert matter. I'm an extrovert and am genuinely interested in people ad a whole so when I ask questions is because I'm genuinely interested not because I intend to use the information one way or the other. Saying that if the response to 'so what are you doing' was 'nothing much' with lack of eye contact I certain wouldn't insist.

But one can be lonely in a roomful of people, sometimes I have been, and conversely sometimes I have been the life and soul.
I think its more to do with who is asking.
The gossipy one, who will pass your excuse/reason to everyone and then bleat about it for months cos you turned them down with no good reason, or your mate who you have known for ever and you know wont take offence at a no.
Would anyone prefer to know the truth when the truth is 'say' something they vehemently disagree with.
Maybe its not even whom is asking, maybe its a privacy thing?