Saying no to people

Guest101

LameWolf wrote: »

Perpetual doormat here; I've always had trouble saying No to people, and still don't really have the hang of it.

The one time I did hold out was when an acquaintance of Mr LW's, a chap I neither like nor trust, wanted us to "help him out" with what looked like a dodgy gambling scheme on the Internet. Mr LW involved me because he's even worse than I am at saying No, and he'd known the chap since their university days.

So I said No.
Chap: Why not?
Me: I don't have the money to put up.
Chap: Oh, I can lend you £1000 to get started.
Me: No; I don't do debt.
Chap (now starting to show signs of throwing a paddywack): But you have a mortgage - how is this different? A mortgage is still borrowing money? Why can't you do this? I was relying on you, now I'll have to try and get "Fred" to do it. *lots of sighing and huffing*

Honestly, you had to be there! But the worst thing was I still felt guilty about saying No to him.

If he has £1,000 and its fool proof, then he doesnt need to rely on anyone does he?!

You were far more polite than i would be.

zagfles

Guest101 wrote: »

If he has £1,000 and its fool proof, then he doesnt need to rely on anyone does he?!

You were far more polite than i would be.

Depends, could be Matched Betting (see the board here on MSE). There's a limit to how much you can make as an individual, bookies are very strict on ID etc, but if you get friends to sign up and help them get started they can start making money too.

Mind you it's definitely not foolproof, mistakes can be very costly, you need to know what you're doing!

FBaby

But don't then whinge when others treat you the same way.

Indeed, are you saying that if you wife needed desperately to change her shift, asked her manager if they could consider another shift and she got a straight 'NO you can't', she would accept that response without wanting more explanation behind the reason? I very much doubt it.

I personally tend to associate people who say no without explanation as not very nice. I can't help but wonder whether at times, if they don't give you a reason, it is because they don't have one, but seem to take pleasure in just saying no even if it uspet the other person who asked.

Guest101

FBaby wrote: »

Indeed, are you saying that if you wife needed desperately to change her shift, asked her manager if they could consider another shift and she got a straight 'NO you can't', she would accept that response without wanting more explanation behind the reason? I very much doubt it.

I personally tend to associate people who say no without explanation as not very nice. I can't help but wonder whether at times, if they don't give you a reason, it is because they don't have one, but seem to take pleasure in just saying no even if it uspet the other person who asked.

But why do they owe you an explanation?

What if they just dont want to. Why do they need a reason to say no?
- If the other person gets upset by hearing no, then i'd suggest that person needs to deal with rejection better.

"Oh Guest, do you fancy going to X, this weekend?"
"No thanks."

It's not rude.

What is rude is then saying, "oh why not?".

FBaby

But why do they owe you an explanation?

I never looked at it as being owed an explanation, I just find it a geture of respect. Not giving a reason often leads to suspicion that something is hidden, or leads to misinterpretation, which often fires back.

I see how as little effort to give a quick explanation if that means providing some understanding from the person asking, especially as many people (including myself) find it very hard to ask a favour from other people.

FBaby

What is rude is then saying, "oh why not?".

This is not rudeness to me, it is showing an interest in the other's person life.

Saying that, I do agree that if the person isn't responsive at this stage and one keep insisting, I do consider it rudeness at that point.

zagfles

Guest101 wrote: »

But why do they owe you an explanation?

What if they just dont want to. Why do they need a reason to say no?

They don't.

- If the other person gets upset by hearing no, then i'd suggest that person needs to deal with rejection better.

It's not a question of the other person getting "upset".

If you don't give a reason the other person will likely make an assumption about the reason and it will affect how they interact with you next time, or how they react when you ask them them a similar question.

"Oh Guest, do you fancy going to X, this weekend?"
"No thanks."

Then they might well assume you don't like going to X. Or that you don't want to go with to X with them.

If you do actually like doing X, and would like to do X with the person who asked maybe at another time, but can't make this time because you've got other arrangements, saying simply "no thanks" without a reason is a pretty stupid answer because they likely won't bother asking you next time.

coolcait

FBaby wrote: »

....
I personally tend to associate people who say no without explanation as not very nice. I can't help but wonder whether at times, if they don't give you a reason, it is because they don't have one, but seem to take pleasure in just saying no even if it uspet the other person who asked.

Those are your thoughts and suppositions. Why should others have to share information just so that you, or others, don't allow their own imaginations and preconceptions to run away with them?


If someone says, "I'm afraid I'm not available at that time", why do people feel it's acceptable to ask 'Why not?'


There are many threads on this forum from people who find themselves unable to say 'No' to the demands from others. Even when the demands are clearly unreasonable.


One thing which comes through time and again is the fact that 'Why not?' isn't necessarily because the questioner has any interest in the other person's life.


It's often the foot in the door, to try to turn the 'No' into a browbeaten 'Yes'.


Once some people know 'why' the other person has said 'No', they will come up with a long list of ways that the other person's plans can be changed, so that they have to say 'Yes'.


If I say 'No' to a request, and the person who asked me then comes up with a long and involved list of assumptions, inaccuracies and fantasy nonsense to explain why I said 'No', I wish them joy with those endeavours.

Bennifred

A: Can you do Fred's shift?

B: No.

A: Why not?

B: Why do you want to know?

Guest101

zagfles wrote: »

They don't. It's not a question of the other person getting "upset".

If you don't give a reason the other person will likely make an assumption about the reason and it will affect how they interact with you next time, or how they react when you ask them them a similar question.Then they might well assume you don't like going to X. Or that you don't want to go with to X with them.

If you do actually like doing X, and would like to do X with the person who asked maybe at another time, but can't make this time because you've got other arrangements, saying simply "no thanks" without a reason is a pretty stupid answer because they likely won't bother asking you next time.

And if that was the case i would elaborate my answer.

Lets assume they've suggested something i dont wish to do. regardless of who it is.

Theyve suggested a visit to the stamp museum. I have no interest in stamps. No thanks should suffice.

in the OPs original example. Do you want to cover fred's shift. No thanks. - should suffice.

Do yu have a minute to talk about the bees (or whatever charity it is this week. No thanks. - should suffice.

If pushed on the issue, which i feel is inappropriate behaviour from all but immediate family, i would elaborate, but i would not be pleased.