EE.T-Mob.Orange. Change T&C From 26th March 2014

RandomCurve

infiniti wrote: »

I too am in the same boat in that I have sent the first email to mr swantee and no response.

if it comes to it how do we confirm that we did in fact send the email within 30 days of receiving the text notification - is a copy of the sent email enough?

or should we send a recorded delivery letter as well to be on the safe side?

if so should it be the same as the first email with a copy of the sent email for good measure or is there a better version which could be created which contains all relevant points from the follow-up emails?

Also thanks to RC for his efforts, time and dedication. Also I very much believe that EE execs will be monitoring this board very closely!

To be absolutely sure you could send a recorded delivery letter, but quicker and cheaper is to phone 150 and ask for a penalty free cancellation based on the change in T&Cs being to your material detriment (they won't give you one) and state that you have emailed. the phone records will show you called, and your email records show you have sent the email!

RandomCurve

GolfBravo wrote: »

Sent my last email on Sunday, no reply yet.

But I'm not holding my breath, I guess it will eventually end up as a CISAS complaint or small claims on Monday.

There is no way EE will give a penalty free cancellation without being directed to by CISAS - which just shows what a complete mockery the whole T&Cs are. Alternatively going via the small Claims Court they normally settle before it the case get s heard a the last thing they want is a court ruling against them

RandomCurve

baldyj wrote: »

I signed up to t mobile in December (2013), so reading the original post in this thread it seems I am not affected, yet I have received the text from ee?!

Can anybody advise whether I should pursue this or not?

Thanks.

It willl effect you - your current T&C includes the word "reasonable", which is specifically not allowed under the UTCCRs - send the cancellation request

RandomCurve

sshariff wrote: »

I have just noticed the cheeky EE manipulating it's terms and conditions online. This is what clause 4.3 actually is for Orange customers who had taken a contract before 31st Oct 2012.

" 4.3 You may also terminate your Contract if we vary its terms, resulting in an excessive increase in the Charges or changes that alter your rights under this Contract to your detriment. In such cases you would need to give us at least 14 days written notice prior to your Billing Date (and within one month of us telling you about the changes). However this option does not apply if:

4.3.1 we have increased the Charges by an amount equal to or less than the percentage increase in the All Items Index of Retail Prices published by the Central Statistical Office in the Monthly Digest of Statistics in any 12 month period; "

This is what they have sneakily modified clause 4.3.1 to only on their website only.

"4.3.1 we give you written notice to increase the Charges (as a percentage) by an amount
equal to or less than the percentage increase in the All Items Index of Retail Prices or
any other statistical measure of inflation published by any government body
authorised to publish measures of inflation from time to time, and published on a date
as close as reasonably possible before the date on which we send you written notice;"

I have the original terms and conditions document with me when I had taken out the contract. Clause 4.3.1 in my contract is not enforceable for a price rise in any court of law as it only specifies an old government body that does not exist today!

I think CISAS and then the small claims court will be the way for me (if the pro-provider cisas don't duly deal with it!)

The above has been hornets nest! Those who tried to cancel based on the above got as far as CISAS, only for EE to say they have not changed the T&Cs, there just happen to be two sets in operation at the same time!!


I know some then pursued it through the Small Claims Court on the basis that as neither the publishing body, nor statistic referred to exist then EE cant use the clause - to my knowledge these folk won their cases.


I took a case to CISAS based on the fact that the publishing body and statistic don't exist and lost, however rather than take that argument to the SCC (even although I knew others had won)I took a separate argument to the SCC regarding the fact the ANY PRICE RISE CLAUSE in a 2 year contract is unenforceable - EE settled before the court hearing!!!

RandomCurve

Sunnyhaze wrote: »

I also have two 4G tablets that fall under the same original Terms And Conditions, can I include those too?

I should think so if they changed the T&Cs

naf123

RandomCurve wrote: »

just to help everyone keep track of things:


Email 1 - Original cancellation request is at post #44
All Orange and T-Mobile clauses are at post #57
EEs response to email 1 is at post #65
Email 2 - response to EE is at post #68
EE response to email 2 is at #73 OR #98
Email 3 - response to EE is at post #110 or #111 for post #73
Email 3 - response to EE is at post #116 for post #98

thanks for this. Going to try this hoping to get out of my contract :-)

In fact I have no idea what my contract is and where it is! :-) They don't give out contracts nowadays!

RandomCurve

Dudeface wrote: »

Just got this last response after sending the emails about material detriment
am sorry you remain unhappy with my response.

As a company EE does not accept there has been any material detriment due to the recent proposed change in its terms and conditions. !Under these circumstances any request from its customers to be released from contract without penalty will be declined. !Any customer wishing to cancel their contract may do so by providing the relevant 30 days notice period required but they will be held liable for any early termination fee.

The company, EE, have fully complied with the General Conditions set out under Ofcom regulations and as the previous emails and this one sets out fully the final position EE has taken, no further discussion will be entered into with regard to this matter.

Whilst I understand this is not the outcome you were looking for, I trust I have clarified EE's position regarding this matter.

Looks like they think they can decide what it means!

This is an interesting development.


In any negotiation you often have to move in little steps, if you think back - this started with a bland text saying T&Cs have changed, and over the last 2 weeks we have got EE to admit to the fact that you can cancel your contract penalty free if the change is of material detriment to you - so we have moved a long way.


To take this to the next and final step we need to understand the basis upon which EE have based their assessment of Material Detriment, but like any good negotiator they don't want to "move first" and would rather find out why you think it is of material detriment, so we need to try and coax it out of them. If this email does not receive the desired response then we will have to go to CISAS and use EEs unwillingness to engage as further evidence of them not applying a duty of care. There is also further regulation that we can use against EE in the CISAS claim, which should sway things firmly in your favour (I won't publish it here just yet, by EE probably already know what it is)!


Dear Mr Swantee,


Further to you email of DATE, EE have already informed me that it does not consider this change to be of Material Detriment to me, but I have also made you aware that under the UTCCRs EE do no have the exclusive right to interpret any term of the contract.


Given EE have already contravened the UTCCRs with regards to this matter I would have thought EE would have welcomed the opportunity to inform me of the criteria it has applied, when making its assessment of Material Detriment and how EE defines "material" in relation to a change in T&Cs.


In order that we may progress this matter can you please inform me of the criteria and definition used? Should EE not be forthcoming with the requested information that can only be viewed as a deliberate attempt by EE to frustrate my rights to take this matter further, and would not be an example of applying a duty of care in discharging this contract.


In your response can you also refer me to the Ofcom guidance (document name/reference) that you have followed which has prompted EE to change its T&Cs.


As an alternative to the above, as I view this change in T&Cs to be unacceptable to me and to be of Material Detriment, you could comply with the T&Cs of our contract, GC 9.6 and USD 20/22/EC and process the penalty free cancellation that this change has triggered.


Regards

RandomCurve

RandomCurve wrote: »

just to help everyone keep track of things:


Email 1 - Original cancellation request is at post #44
All Orange and T-Mobile clauses are at post #57
EEs response to email 1 is at post #65
Email 2 - response to EE is at post #68
EE response to email 2 is at #73 OR #98
Email 3 - response to EE is at post #110 or #111 for post #73
Email 3 - response to EE is at post #116 for post #98

Sorry to quote myself, but just keeping this up to date


EE response to Email 3 at post #116 is at Post #151
Email 4 response to post #151 is at post #168

GolfBravo

RandomCurve wrote: »

There is no way EE will give a penalty free cancellation without being directed to by CISAS

Can we then expect another RandomCurve written masterpiece: a CISAS complaint to copy and paste?

RandomCurve

GolfBravo wrote: »

Can we then expect another RandomCurve written masterpiece: a CISAS complaint to copy and paste?

It is already in my head , but I would stop short of calling it a masterpiece!