EE.T-Mob.Orange. Change T&C From 26th March 2014

bhoy1

Well just got off the phone to EE, 3 different answers from 3 useless customer services assistants. heres a quick summary.
Q1 whats the exact changes to the t&cs.
A its not yet been finalised.

Q2 what if i dont agree to new t&cs
A you HAVE to accept.

Q when will I receive official 30 days notice of changes to t&cs as a text message from an unknown number is not an acceptable form of notice.
A that is your notice.

Q how can you give me notice if the changes to the t&cs have not yet been finalised.
A silence then they hung up.....

Does anyone on here know if a text message is a lawful way of communicating something as important as a change in T&cs for a mobile contract.

RandomCurve

Mr_Uddin wrote: »

2.11.3-if you are a consumer and the change is of material detriment to you we will send you written notice of 30 days before the terms and conditions are due to change. The new terms and conditions will apply to you once the notice has run out. Unless you terminate the contract with us within that period. If you do this you won't have to pay any cancellation charge that would otherwise apply see point 7.2.3.2

7.2.3.2-you are a consumer and the change that we gave you written 30 days notice of in point 2.11.2 or 7.1.4 above is of material detriment and you give us notice to immediately cancel this agreement before the change takes effect

Is there nothing in the current EE contract referencing RPI? if not then then that price rise clause almost certainly unenforceable, and the change in T&Cs is to your Material detriment .

RandomCurve

Dudeface wrote: »

Please respond to [EMAIL="executive.office@everythingeverywhere.com"]executive.office@everythingeverywhere.com[/EMAIL]

Dear Mr xxxxx,
Just received this email


Thank you for response with regard to the recent notification in the change of the Terms and Conditions of your agreement.

Please be advised the Universal Service Directive 2003/22/EC you refer to is implemented in the UK through the Telecommunications Act 2003 and via Ofcom's General Conditions. Under General Condition GC9.6 a customer has the right to cancel its contract without paying a cancellation charge but only where the change is likely to be to the customer's material detriment. The notice we have issued to our customers is not a notice whereby the change is of material detriment, as such there is no entitlement for customers to cancel their contract without charge.

This is the companies final position and it refers the right not to enter into any further discussion with regard to this matter.


How on earth do they think they can decide what is considered as materiel detriment?

Exactly - see post #116

RandomCurve

bhoy1 wrote: »

Well just got off the phone to EE, 3 different answers from 3 useless customer services assistants. heres a quick summary.
Q1 whats the exact changes to the t&cs.
A its not yet been finalised.

Q2 what if i dont agree to new t&cs
A you HAVE to accept.

Q when will I receive official 30 days notice of changes to t&cs as a text message from an unknown number is not an acceptable form of notice.
A that is your notice.

Q how can you give me notice if the changes to the t&cs have not yet been finalised.
A silence then they hung up.....

Does anyone on here know if a text message is a lawful way of communicating something as important as a change in T&cs for a mobile contract.

You can see why EE are trying to force people down the 150 route, they know that you won't get any sense from them!

I wonder if the response to Q1 is anticipation of the price rise not being finalised??


EEs T&Cs do allow them to use text - so I guess the answer is yes.

jakethepeguk

hmm this is a new one

To: Executive Office; Swantee, Olaf
Subject: FW: Re : Change to terms and conditions of a fixed term contract
Sent: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:57:24 -0000
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
was deleted without being read on Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:57:32 -0000
NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER

This e-mail (including any attachments) is intended for the above-named person(s). If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, delete this email from your system and do not disclose or use for any purpose.
We may monitor all incoming and outgoing emails in line with current legislation. We have taken steps to ensure that this email and attachments are free from any virus, but it remains your responsibility to ensure that viruses do not adversely affect you.
EE Limited
Registered in England and Wales
Company Registered Number: 02382161
Registered Office Address: Trident Place, Mosquito Way, Hatfield, Hertfordshire, AL10 9BW

RandomCurve

I think I have found something on Ofcom's website which could be dynamite on this issue.


I have said on one of my earlier posts that the price rise clauses as they stand are probably not enforceable in a court of law (indeed I have had 2 price increases overturned, and I know others have as well).


Well EE have said that they are changing the T&Cs in response to Ofcom guidance, and because EE have said Ofcom we stupidly fall into the trap of thinking that Ofcom guidance is there to protect us consumers - WRONG!!!!


I think I just found the guidance that EE refer to and is clearly aimed at protecting the Communications Provider (CP) and if you read paragraph 4 it supports the case that EE are trying to replace an unenforceable clause with an enforceable clause, i.e the Ofcom guidance is helping EE and others to put in enforceable price rise clauses!! So now you really know who Ofcom is set up to protect - and it is NOT us!


The important point is if your contract currently has an UNFORCABLE price rise clause, and EE want to now put in an ENFORCABLE price rise clause then the change has to be to of material detriment -EE have been rumbled - make sure all your friends and family are aware of this!.


From Ofcom website:
http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/telecoms/ga-scheme/general-conditions/general-conditions-guidelines/background/#gc9


EVERYTHING BELOW IS STARIGHT FROM OFCOM (I have bolded and underlined paragraph 4)


http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/consultations/addcharges/statement/Guidance.pdf
This is industry guidance on unfair terms in contracts for communications services. It focuses principally on additional charges in consumer contracts, also referring to the obligation for communications providers to comply with General Condition 9 (contract terms)


Guidance on unfair terms in contracts for communications services


Introduction


1. Standard form terms in contracts for the supply of goods and services in the UK, between sellers or suppliers and consumers, must comply with the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (“the Regulations”). The OFT, together with a number of other bodies including Ofcom, share the task of enforcement. As a qualifying body, Ofcom has certain duties to consider complaints about terms in contracts used by communications providers (“CPs”)
1 2. The OFT has published general unfair contract terms guidance, based on its experience of enforcing the Regulations, which addresses a wide range of terms in consumer contracts. . 2
3. Ofcom believes that sector-specific guidance (this “Guidance”) on a limited range of such issues will benefit CPs and consumers. This Guidance focuses principally on contract terms which provide for the payment by the consumer of additional charges, default charges, minimum contract periods and notice periods, and contract terms which may lead to additional charges being incurred.
While in many cases this is helpful in considering terms in consumer contracts within communications markets, it does not directly address some of the common terms in contracts for communications services.


4. Ofcom expects CPs to review their terms in light of the Guidance and to amend or remove any that are unfair. Unfair terms are not legally enforceable against consumers (see Regulation 8(1)), so it is in CPs’ interests, as well as consumers,’ to ensure that terms are fair.

RandomCurve

jakethepeguk wrote: »

hmm this is a new one

To: Executive Office; Swantee, Olaf
Subject: FW: Re : Change to terms and conditions of a fixed term contract
Sent: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:57:24 -0000

was deleted without being read on Mon, 17 Feb 2014 21:57:32 -0000
NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER

I would resend it with a header - ** LEGALLY DEEMED TO HAVE BEEN RECEIVED **


If they delete that without reading it then that is tough on them, especially if you also add as the first line of your email "EE are deemed to have accepted my right to a penalty free cancellation unless they have contacted me within 30 days"


Not sure what the legal status of the above would actually be, but it is worth a try - I think they will open the email when they see the header. if not send another with a header "** LETTER BEFORE ACTION **"

sshariff

I believe EE have simply stopped replying to any emails. It has been 7 calendar days now since I sent EE the second email however they won't respond. I have emailed Mr Swantee and the executive office another chaser today!

I believe they too know that they have screwed up badly this time. I am also pretty sure that EE are monitoring proceedings on this forum very closely!

50Twuncle

sshariff wrote: »

I believe EE have simply stopped replying to any emails. It has been 7 calendar days now since I sent EE the second email however they won't respond. I have emailed Mr Swantee and the executive office another chaser today!

I believe they too know that they have screwed up badly this time. I am also pretty sure that EE are monitoring proceedings on this forum very closely!

I am still waiting for a response to an email sent 10 days ago - so I have to agree with you
Are you getting a message read response back ?
SwanatEE is going to regret messing with MSE'ers !!!

infiniti

I too am in the same boat in that I have sent the first email to mr swantee and no response.

if it comes to it how do we confirm that we did in fact send the email within 30 days of receiving the text notification - is a copy of the sent email enough?

or should we send a recorded delivery letter as well to be on the safe side?

if so should it be the same as the first email with a copy of the sent email for good measure or is there a better version which could be created which contains all relevant points from the follow-up emails?

Also thanks to RC for his efforts, time and dedication. Also I very much believe that EE execs will be monitoring this board very closely!