Compensation for delayed flights Discussion Area

111KAB

At around 33 minutes on Radio 4 today (29/09/2014) >


http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04k9h4w

David_e

111KAB wrote: »

At around 33 minutes on Radio 4 today (29/09/2014) >

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04k9h4w

Disgraceful but sadly not surprising.

aTOMLondon

~Hi for everyone.

After a bit research it looks like this is the most reliable site to get some advice.
My bro and his fianc!e went to New York a week ago. Today was the due to fly back to Budapest via Frankfurt by Lufthansa.
As you could read from the news, Lufthansa pilots are striking so my bro's flight been cancelled. They only found out this situation when they arrived to the airport, NY.
After few hours waiting in the cue, the Lufthansa staff offered them a flight to Vienna what will departure after two hours.
They suppose to wait in Austria around 8 hours to get the connection to Budapest tomorrow.
Long story short they accepted the flight change to Vienna and the fianc!e's father will drive up to pick them up from Budapest to Vienna. Total 300 miles. But in this case they will be in Budapest tomorrow before midday.

If you could give a bit of advice, please.
Can we claim for any compensation? They missed the connection flight and lost that ticket and also money. Lufthansa did not lose too much as they only had to change their flight, but they don't need to pay any transport, food, or accommodation.
My bro cannot affort to stay longer in NY, as he has to work tomorrow afternoon, or he could lose his job.

Any advice is welcome. Thanks in advance.

JPears

Sorry but we need more precise details, times et which flight(s) were cancelled? Your posting is a bit muddled.

David_e

aTOMLondon wrote: »

If you could give a bit of advice, please.

Best advice is to read this excellent work on the subject, kindly prepared by poster Vauban.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w6hmpy5ysxpck6k/Vauban%27s%20Guide%20to%20Claiming%20Flight%20Delay%20Compensation.pdf?dl=0

aTOMLondon

David_e wrote: »

Best advice is to read this excellent work on the subject, kindly prepared by poster Vauban.


Thank you. Actually I read that link but almost no explanation about strikes.
So the cancelled flight is LH 401, NY- Frankfurt. As this flight been cancelled, they missed the connection flight LH1334, Frankfurt to Budapest.
The only option what a Lufthansa staff offered to them is to take the flight to Vienna, stay there 8 hours and then they put them to Vienna-Budapest flight today evening.
So they decided to go to Vienna and my bro's fiancees father went to pick them up by car.
So if somebody can link me an example of strike, as an extraordinary circumstances, it would be great.

I've got a feeling, that Lufthansa will cover itself with this extraordinary circumstances and won't pay a penny for the inconveniences.

JPears

It could be argued in court (which is probably what it will come to) that a strike by pilots is not an E.C. since HR issues are inherent within the airlines normal operation and activities and it is usually within the airline's control, if it is limited to an individual airline and not industry wide.
ATC strike is a different matter.
It is highly unlikely the strike was at very short notice.

JCB_Digger

Hi All,

In the past we battled with Jet2 with an 'exceptional circumstances' and won, though this was down to Jet2 making a mess of their timings when the case proceeded to the Court of Appeal from the Magistrates Court (we won at Magistrates court, but Jet2 appealed) - Jet2 like to leave everything until the last possible minute to stretch the process out as much as possible, when submitting papers to Manchester Court they missed the deadline by a day.

Thomas Cook on the other hand were really good. We had been denied boarding at Lanzarote - we had pre-booked seats but the airline allowed the people on a previous delayed flight to take our seats.

Thomas Cook sent us vouchers for £975 within days - we said we'd prefer cash and this was sorted for us within 10 working days.

Out of the 2 airlines, we'll definitely use Thomas Cook again, but won't be using Jet2 again in case we end up getting delayed - life's too short to go through that again..

Oh, I found that Thomas Cook's Twitter account (@ThomasCookCares) was really helpful and responded to questions within an hour.

austin9658

aTOMLondon wrote: »

David_e wrote: »

Best advice is to read this excellent work on the subject, kindly prepared by poster Vauban.


Thank you. Actually I read that link but almost no explanation about strikes.
So the cancelled flight is LH 401, NY- Frankfurt. As this flight been cancelled, they missed the connection flight LH1334, Frankfurt to Budapest.
The only option what a Lufthansa staff offered to them is to take the flight to Vienna, stay there 8 hours and then they put them to Vienna-Budapest flight today evening.
So they decided to go to Vienna and my bro's fiancees father went to pick them up by car.
So if somebody can link me an example of strike, as an extraordinary circumstances, it would be great.

I've got a feeling, that Lufthansa will cover itself with this extraordinary circumstances and won't pay a penny for the inconveniences.

No, Pilot strikes do not come under Extraordinary Circumstance. Air traffic controllers strike is a different matter but when pilots strike of a particular airlines do not come under E.C. Extraordinary Circumstance means the problems that can't be controlled by airlines. Write them for your claim.

batman44

Interesting read,

The highest Court in Europe ruled on the 4th September 2014 that the arrival time must be calculated from the time the first aircraft door is opened.
It was previously thought the arrival time should be calculated from when the aircraft comes to a standstill, so this decision means more passengers will technically be delayed by 3 hours or more and more passengers will therefore be entitled to compensation.
We know that pursuant to Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 passengers are entitled to compensation where they experience an arrival delay of 3 hours or more, but what is the definition of ‘arrival delay’?
In November 2009 the European Court of Justice confirmed in the case of Sturgeon that passengers are entitled to compensation where they suffer a loss of time equal to or in excess of three hours, that is, where they reach their final destination three hours or more after the arrival time originally scheduled by the air carrier.
More often than not there is no dispute between an airline and the passenger as to the exact time of arrival. The exception however is where the arrival delay is close to the 3 hour threshold (or 4 hour threshold in the case of flights over 3,500km where €600 is sought).
In these cases it is essential to identify precisely as what time the flight arrived.
In the case of Germanwings GmbH v Ronny Henning (C‑452/13), the Court of Justice of the European Union (“CJEU”) was asked to consider
whether arrival delay meant:-
a) the time that the aircraft lands on the runway (“touchdown”);
b) the time that the aircraft reaches its parking position and the parking brakes are engaged or the chocks have been applied (“on-block time”);
c) the time that the aircraft door is opened;
d) some other time as agreed between the parties.
On the 4th September 2014 the CJEU, the highest Court in Europe, noted that so far as the passenger is concerned they are confined in the aircraft for the entirety of the flight and this situation does not change when the flight touches down or when the aircraft reaches its parking position and applies the brakes.
It is only when the passengers are permitted to leave the aircraft and the order is given to open the doors of the aircraft that the passengers may in principle resume their normal activities without being subject to those constraints.

the Court ruled that ‘arrival delay’ corresponds to the time at which at least one of the doors of the aircraft is opened, the assumption being that, at that moment, the passengers are permitted to leave the aircraft.

Accordingly the Court ruled that ‘arrival delay’ corresponds to the time at which at least one of the doors of the aircraft is opened, the assumption being that, at that moment, the passengers are permitted to leave the aircraft.
Anybody who travels by air will appreciate it can often be a considerable period of time between the aircraft parking and the aircraft doors being opened.
If a passenger is subject to an arrival delay which is on the cusp of the threshold then they would be advised to take photographs of the aircraft doors to show that they remained closed beyond the threshold time. This can later be used as evidence if the airline argues that the delay was less than 3 (or 4) hours.
This is great news for consumers as it means more passengers will be entitled to claim compensation when their flight is delayed.