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Fathers Day - am I being unreasonable?

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  • Torry_Quine
    Torry_Quine Posts: 18,840 Forumite
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    unschooler wrote: »
    Again, that doesn't dispute my statement, especially where a parent is of the religion and takes the child to church every Sunday throughout childhood.

    No-one has actually said anything that disagrees with my point, so I'm not sure what exactly you're getting at.


    As going to church in iself doen't make a Christian they may not be heaven bound anyway. Also you just said loved ones which, perhaps wrongly, I interpreted as all loved ones.
    Lost my soulmate so life is empty.

    I can bear pain myself, he said softly, but I couldna bear yours. That would take more strength than I have -
    Diana Gabaldon, Outlander
  • unschooler
    unschooler Posts: 41 Forumite
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    As going to church in iself doen't make a Christian they may not be heaven bound anyway. Also you just said loved ones which, perhaps wrongly, I interpreted as all loved ones.

    Still not disputing what I said, though is confirming the fact based way this is talked about.
  • Torry_Quine
    Torry_Quine Posts: 18,840 Forumite
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    unschooler wrote: »
    Still not disputing what I said, though is confirming the fact based way this is talked about.

    Why are you so surprised that churches teach that what they believe is true though? It would surely be strange if they said it wasn't. ;)
    Lost my soulmate so life is empty.

    I can bear pain myself, he said softly, but I couldna bear yours. That would take more strength than I have -
    Diana Gabaldon, Outlander
  • unschooler
    unschooler Posts: 41 Forumite
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    Why are you so surprised that churches teach that what they believe is true though? It would surely be strange if they said it wasn't. ;)

    I'm not surprised. Is the purpose of your questions to continue to suggest things I didn't say?

    Some religions teach 'We believe'. Some religions teach 'What we teach is fact'.
  • unschooler
    unschooler Posts: 41 Forumite
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    poet123 wrote: »
    So what does this mean?
    "How are they then to learn critical thinking or an understanding of the scientific method or being able to work out logically what they want to believe?"

    Clearly some, many do if they go on to work in the professions I mention, but your inference is that if they are exposed to religion in childhood that is harder/unlikely/impossible. You may not understand it, that doesn't mean it does not happen.

    No. I was not implying that they cannot learn critical thinking. Many religions do not teach their beliefs as facts. Those that do make it harder to separate fact from belief.
  • poet123
    poet123 Posts: 24,099 Forumite
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    unschooler wrote: »
    No. I was not implying that they cannot learn critical thinking. Many religions do not teach their beliefs as facts. Those that do make it harder to separate fact from belief.

    Not in my experience. Perhaps in yours, but that does not make it fact, merely your opinion.;)
  • warehouse
    warehouse Posts: 3,362 Forumite
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    poet123 wrote: »
    So how do you explain the scientists, doctors, teachers, lawyers etc.etc. who believe in God? Are they all devoid of the ability to think critically?

    How do you explain the scientists, doctors, teachers, lawyers etc. etc. who believe in scientology?
    Pants
  • poet123
    poet123 Posts: 24,099 Forumite
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    warehouse wrote: »
    How do you explain the scientists, doctors, teachers, lawyers etc. etc. who believe in scientology?

    I don't. Beliefs are just that, they cannot be examined critically, it is about faith. You either have it or you don't.
  • Torry_Quine
    Torry_Quine Posts: 18,840 Forumite
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    unschooler wrote: »
    I'm not surprised. Is the purpose of your questions to continue to suggest things I didn't say?

    Some religions teach 'We believe'. Some religions teach 'What we teach is fact'.

    I think that we're talking semantics here. When a church is teaching they believe something then they are saying that to them at least it's fact. Others are of course free to agree or disagree. It would seem strange to me that a church would say we believe .... while not thinking it fact.
    Lost my soulmate so life is empty.

    I can bear pain myself, he said softly, but I couldna bear yours. That would take more strength than I have -
    Diana Gabaldon, Outlander
  • thorsoak
    thorsoak Posts: 7,166 Forumite
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    Shall we forget about arguing about the number of angels who can (or can't because they don't exist) dance on the head of a pin?

    The OP asked was he being unreasonable in having to accept that his children possibly hadn't bought him loads of tat to celebrate Retailer's Day and that he was being hauled off to church to watch his children perform in a play about fathers - a play which they had been rehearsing for weeks most probably! How long does it take to buy some tat - and how much time and love had his children put into a performance for their Dad?

    And yes, OP - I think that you were being unreasonable - but I do hope that you had a lovely day!
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