Need help with saying no to someone while not falling out

elsien

skintchick wrote: »

But I get that you don't understand that, I just don't know how to explain it to you in a way you will understand.

.

Now might be a good time to start practicing saying no without feeling the need to explain any further. Should you choose to do so.
You don't need to get drawn into a debate you don't want to have either here or in real life. In the words of Grange Hill (showing my age now), Just Say No.

Torry_Quine

poet123 wrote: »

It may not be an issue for you, but to Donna and the other parents if we are talking a 2 hour stint every 8 weeks and that is something you feel is too much, that would be an issue for them.

So how much time are we actually talking about per month? You clearly don't want to say because you think it will appear unreasonable of you not to do it. With regard to what God wants you to do, turn that on its head; would he really object to you doing the creche? Or is it a convenient get around?

God may well object if He feels that skintchick is already doing more than her fair share.

poet123

Torry_Quine wrote: »

God may well object if He feels that skintchick is already doing more than her fair share.

Presumably He is not saying that to Donna though?

I am sorry but I just don't buy it. It comes across as very self righteous to say that my other work in the church is more important than creche duty. A duty, which is, by its very nature, (if the rota is confined to the parents of the youngest children) short lived. For the duration of that put something else on hold, or be honest as to why you don't want to do that.

Torry_Quine

poet123 wrote: »

Presumably He is not saying that to Donna though?

I am sorry but I just don't buy it. It comes across as very self righteous to say that my other work in the church is more important than creche duty. A duty, which is, by its very nature, (if the rota is confined to the parents of the youngest children) short lived. For the duration of that put something else on hold, or be honest as to why you don't want to do that.

Maybe Donna isn't listening. I don't think or at least I would be very surprised if skintchick thinks her other roles are more important. She has been honest why she doesn't want to do it. There is no reason that only parents of young children should work in the creche that I can think of. As the creche takes children up to five then it's not just a short time commitment.

coolcait

poet123 wrote: »

It may not be an issue for you, but to Donna and the other parents if we are talking a 2 hour stint every 8 weeks and that is something you feel is too much, that would be an issue for them.

So how much time are we actually talking about per month? You clearly don't want to say because you think it will appear unreasonable of you not to do it. With regard to what God wants you to do, turn that on its head; would he really object to you doing the creche? Or is it a convenient get around?

However, donna herself has already invoked the religious/spiritual/praying/'what does God want you do?' approach.

So, this debate/dispute is already being played out on the plains of religious belief and guidance.

The OP believes she has her answer on that level.

On a more secular level, if you want to focus on how much time would actually be involved in creche duties for the OP, then it would be fair to focus on how much time the other 'creche' parents spend on other church activities.

You could also look at how much time other members of the congregation spend on church activities.

The function of the creche appears to be that it enables adult worship, free from the distractions of bored children.

People can be distracted by the [perceived] bad behaviour of other people's bored children.

So, arguably, every adult in the congregation benefits from the fact that there is a creche. It's not just a perk for parents.

As long as the proper checks are in place, every adult member of the congregation could take part in the creche rota. After all, having a creche benefits all of the adults in the congregation.

At that point, it's probably time to look at how much time each individual adult member of the congregation already spends on other church duties. 'Duties' which benefit the congregation as a whole.

Then allocate all of the duties among the congregation in a way which plays to their strengths, and ensures a fair split of time.

Ideally, everyone will spend a similar amount of time on church duties - whatever those duties may be.

That's not happening in the OP's scenario.

poet123

Torry_Quine wrote: »

Maybe Donna isn't listening. I don't think or at least I would be very surprised if skintchick thinks her other roles are more important. She has been honest why she doesn't want to do it. There is no reason that only parents of young children should work in the creche that I can think of.

Maybe Skintchick isn't listening?

I don't think she has been honest as to why she doesn't want to do it.

I think we view this very differently. To me, as a parent, I would always pull my weight with supervision duties regardless of other jobs I may have taken on (because they appealed to me) I was Chair of the PTA for 12 years, but I always did my stint on the rota of supervision at disco's, outings etc. I suppose I could have said I do my bit in other ways, but it didn't occur to me and if it had I would have discounted it.

Yorkie1

poet123 wrote: »

Presumably He is not saying that to Donna though?

I am sorry but I just don't buy it. It comes across as very self righteous to say that my other work in the church is more important than creche duty. A duty, which is, by its very nature, (if the rota is confined to the parents of the youngest children) short lived. For the duration of that put something else on hold, or be honest as to why you don't want to do that.

I appreciate that you do not seem to understand the nature of a 'call' in a faith. It is not necessarily about what one 'likes' to do, or not. It is about using the gifts that God has given you.

The Bible is very clear that different people are given different gifts / called to do different things - therefore that it is not appropriate, or biblical, for everyone to do everything. Donna and Fred in SC's church appear to have forgotten this fundamental teaching in their desire to have a rota filled.

At one point in the past I did the PA system and was at church for the best part of 6-8 hours most Sundays. I also had a few weekday commitments. The person in charge of the youth work came up to me, called me by someone else's name (my housemate, who looked similar to me) and said that she believed that God had called me to join the youth work. When I pointed out that I wasn't actually the person she thought I was, she said "Oh, you too then". Clearly it was just because I was single and she needed helpers. There was clearly no prayerful thought about me specifically.

I was also at one point on the PCC of the church. I didn't have a particular desire to be on it, but for a number of months I felt an unexplained prompting that perhaps I should do it. Put myself forward eventually, after praying, and was elected on. I think that demonstrates that a 'call' isn't just something you personally want to do.

Anyway, this post has gone on far too long on a slight tangent which probably won't help anybody without a faith background to understand more or to change their views.

SC, I suspect that your pastor will end up getting his ear bent by Donna and Fred. Only you know whether he will go with what they say, or keep an open mind until he has spoken to you. I don't think this will just go away.

I agree with the poster who advised at least getting together details of all you do in the church, so that when you are approached about this issue, you have it to hand.

I also think that the suggestion that your OH should state he will give up the older childrens' youth work if the only criteria for doing childrens' work is a child in that age group in the club, is a good one. The leadership can't have it both ways.

Likewise, if the leadership state that you must partake in the creche, you may wish to consider whether you should give up some of your worship leading so as to balance out your 'pew time'. It's all about a balance and they are completely unreasonable if they expect you to sacrifice more and more.

We recognised at church that there's a "mug list" - people who are on it get dumped on more and more. The church needs to recognise that too.

Finally, is this really the only church in your locality? I can understand you feeling called to serve your community but I'd be surprised if this was the only church around.

coolcait

poet123 wrote: »

Maybe Skintchick isn't listening?

I don't think she has been honest as to why she doesn't want to do it.

I think we view this very differently. To me, as a parent, I would always pull my weight with supervision duties regardless of other jobs I may have taken on (because they appealed to me) I was Chair of the PTA for 12 years, but I always did my stint on the rota of supervision at disco's, outings etc. I suppose I could have said I do my bit in other ways, but it didn't occur to me and if it had I would have discounted it.

But, you are putting your own personal, secular views and experiences onto the OP's personal, religious views and experiences.

The two are unlikely to overlap.

Whereas, the role of Chair of the PTA is much more likely to overlap with supervision at discos, outings etc. Sadly.

In my view, the OP has been completely honest about her reasons for not wanting to be part of the creche rota.

Those reasons may not fit in with my personal views/beliefs on religion, religious communities, rotas, 'creches', or anything else that has been discussed on the thread.

But, I 'see' where she's coming from - and I see it in a very different way from the way that your posts depict it.

So, I can't agree with you on this one.

Torry_Quine

poet123 wrote: »

Maybe Skintchick isn't listening?

I don't think she has been honest as to why she doesn't want to do it.

I think we view this very differently. To me, as a parent, I would always pull my weight with supervision duties regardless of other jobs I may have taken on (because they appealed to me) I was Chair of the PTA for 12 years, but I always did my stint on the rota of supervision at disco's, outings etc. I suppose I could have said I do my bit in other ways, but it didn't occur to me and if it had I would have discounted it.

I think we do. In the type of church attended by both skintchick and myself the role of worship leader is a large and very important one which takes up a lot of time and energy in preparing for and during services. At my church for instance the worship group are at church two hours before the service begins and so on a Sunday morning will be there for 3.5 hours and again in the evening. there is also all the time during the week needed, it isn't just a case of turning up and leading worship.

Sambucus_Nigra

skintchick wrote: »

It's not a cult, but there is potential for it to be abused if people just want their own way. But it's not a cult, definitely, although I can see why you'd think that from what I've said.

It is just this potential for abuse of power, that I have a problem with. Because if we are all bullied and blackmailed into silence (not saying that is happening!!) then who stands up to it?

I find that uncomfortable, when it starts veering in that direction like in this situation.

This is the main reason I don't have anything to do with religion.

As far as I am concerned, I am my appointed leader and I make my decisions about what I do with my time. You have handed this role to some one so either you play by the agreed rules, or you walk away.