Need help with saying no to someone while not falling out

skintchick

lostinrates wrote: »

I typed while you were typing that,


I think that would be HiGHLY incendiary.

I just don't know what to do then.

Yes we have a leadership and overall ethos of "these are your annointed leaders, they are in charge, do what they say" but I can't agree that that is applicable in all circumstances regardless. Because then there is no way of disagreeing - you are just charged with being unBiblical or not listening to leadership, and they have carte blanche to ignore you.

How do you even begin to have conversations in those circumstances?

mountainofdebt

skintchick wrote: »

I just don't know what to do then.

Yes we have a leadership and overall ethos of "these are your annointed leaders, they are in charge, do what they say" but I can't agree that that is applicable in all circumstances regardless. Because then there is no way of disagreeing - you are just charged with being unBiblical or not listening to leadership, and they have carte blanche to ignore you.

How do you even begin to have conversations in those circumstances?

Skintchick - don't take offence, as none is intended - but it sounds very cultish.

Probably not but that's the way its coming across

claire16c

Its the whole 'How do you get a reasonable answer from someone who is unreasonable?'

You dont. So just ignore them.

If they contact you, just say no. And keep repeating it.

I dont get why they dont just ask someone else it seems pretty ridiculous.

elsien

skintchick wrote: »

I am thinking I might reply tomorrow saying "I have already prayed about it. Maybe you should pray? I find it hard to believe God is saying completely opposite things to each of us."

Or is that fuelling the fire?

I'm an atheist, so the prayer bit is beyond me. However I do work with people so purely from that perspective I wouldn't be entering into the debate. It leaves you open to skewed logic and being manipulated, especially if being assertive is an area you struggle with at the best of times.
You've said no. Stick with that. Don't enter any further debates with Donna or Fred. If they choose to take it further up the hierarchy then what you've said on here (about the time you and OH already give and that you are now feeling bullied) is clear, concise and what you need to stick with.
Seems to me this isn't about religion any more. it's about people and politics and toys getting thrown out of prams. Don't get drawn into that. Stand back, keep a cool head and do what is best for you and yours.

lostinrates

skintchick wrote: »

I just don't know what to do then.

Yes we have a leadership and overall ethos of "these are your annointed leaders, they are in charge, do what they say" but I can't agree that that is applicable in all circumstances regardless. Because then there is no way of disagreeing - you are just charged with being unBiblical or not listening to leadership, and they have carte blanche to ignore you.

How do you even begin to have conversations in those circumstances?

Perhaps if you feel that you might consider a different denomination where it's not so. But I don't know enough of them to know if there is one compatible with the style of worship you like, or that gives you opportunity to lead in the way you want. It's certainly worth considering other fits. ( fwiw my mother was one denomination my father aethiest but didn't want me indoctrinated, so for a while as a kid I went to 'my' church with my mother fortnightly, and 'the other church' with him the other week. I spent time in two other denominations.

For me, as someone no longer a Christian or in any way faith aligned but still feeling spiritually inclined ( and respectful and fond of the churches I went to) I appreciate this sounds more dramatic to you than it does to me. I learned something from all those places though.

sweaty_betty

skintchick wrote: »

I just don't know what to do then.

Yes we have a leadership and overall ethos of "these are your annointed leaders, they are in charge, do what they say" but I can't agree that that is applicable in all circumstances regardless. Because then there is no way of disagreeing - you are just charged with being unBiblical or not listening to leadership, and they have carte blanche to ignore you.

How do you even begin to have conversations in those circumstances?

I would be quite concerned about that kind of culture, it's really not healthy, there needs to be dialogue not just having things dictated to you. I've been to a few churches where that's the approach and didn't get on with them at all. I'm not sure which denomination your church is, but some are more prone to this in others IMO.

I don't want to recommend that you leave the church, as you say that you feel you should be there, but I would wait and see how this one plays out (and I think waiting is now key - try to put it out of your mind for the moment if possible) and then take stock at how it's been dealt with when deciding on future plans.

poet123

I think that yet again I am the dissenting voice. How does you praying about this and her praying about this and getting conflicting answers reconcile itself?

If you do not want to do the rota that is one thing, but I think you are fudging the issue by bringing the prayer angle into it. For your own reasons, which may not be as altruistic as you would like us to believe, (and I have no issue with that aside from your being upfront about it) you do not want to be on the rota at any price. End of. All this extraneous waffle about where you see your calling is just that; you don't want to do creche duty full stop. Be honest and tell it as it is, don't dress it up. It is not about time, it is about the will to do it.

You came back with a post about not interacting with those who did not agree with you, this is clearly not confined to an internet forum this is what you are doing to "Donna".

You have not answered the oft posed question; how much time are we talking about on the rota. You have not answered because how much time is immaterial to you, it is not about that, it is about your belief that what you do for the church is more important than creche duty, and certainly more stimulating to you. Be honest and upfront with those involved, or are you afraid that being honest will not paint you in a good light? Who cares? If you are true to yourself that is all you can be, if there is a rota of all the other parents and you can look yourself in the mirror and absolve yourself of the obligation to participate that is all that matters.

I am not sure you can though, which is why you seek to hide behind the superiority of your higher calling. Why you seek affirmation from others, you don't need any of that, if you don't want to do it, you don't have to do it, but you owe it to all involved, not least yourself, to be honest about your motivations.

skintchick

mountainofdebt wrote: »

Skintchick - don't take offence, as none is intended - but it sounds very cultish.

Probably not but that's the way its coming across

It's not a cult, but there is potential for it to be abused if people just want their own way. But it's not a cult, definitely, although I can see why you'd think that from what I've said.

It is just this potential for abuse of power, that I have a problem with. Because if we are all bullied and blackmailed into silence (not saying that is happening!!) then who stands up to it?

I find that uncomfortable, when it starts veering in that direction like in this situation.

Having said that for all I know my Pastor would agree with me on this issue, I don't know his thoughts as thus far he has not been involved, as far as I am aware. Although Donna's husband is his deputy, so...

skintchick

poet123 wrote: »

I think that yet again I am the dissenting voice. How does you praying about this and her praying about this and getting conflicting answers reconcile itself?

If you do not want to do the rota that is one thing, but I think you are fudging the issue by bringing the prayer angle into it. For your own reasons, which may not be as altruistic as you would like us to believe, (and I have no issue with that aside from your being upfront about it) you do not want to be on the rota at any price. End of. All this extraneous waffle about where you see your calling is just that; you don't want to do creche duty full stop. Be honest and tell it as it is, don't dress it up. It is not about time, it is about the will to do it.

You came back with a post about not interacting with those who did not agree with you, this is clearly not confined to an internet forum this is what you are doing to "Donna".

You have not answered the oft posed question; how much time are we talking about on the rota. You have not answered because how much time is immaterial to you, it is not about that, it is about your belief that what you do for the church is more important than creche duty, and certainly more stimulating to you. Be honest and upfront with those involved, or are you afraid that being honest will not paint you in a good light? Who cares? If you are true to yourself that is all you can be, if there is a rota of all the other parents and you can look yourself in the mirror and absolve yourslef of the obligation to participate that is all that matters.

I am not sure you can though, which is why you seek to hide behind the superiority of your higher calling. Why you seek affirmation from others, you don't need any of that, if you don't want to do it, you don't have to do it, but you owe it to all involved, not least yourself, to be honest about your motivations.

The thing is that YOU think that "talk of calling" is a side issue but to me it is not.

That's why I don't want to get into the time issue etc, because that isn't the issue.

But I get that you don't understand that, I just don't know how to explain it to you in a way you will understand.

I have done many things I don;t especially want to because I have felt that God wanted me to, so it really isn;t about me just not wanting to do it, it really is about what I feel God wants for me, as well as what I actually have time to fit into my life.

poet123

skintchick wrote: »

The thing is that YOU think that "talk of calling" is a side issue but to me it is not.

That's why I don't want to get into the time issue etc, because that isn't the issue.

But I get that you don't understand that, I just don't know how to explain it to you in a way you will understand.

I have done many tht every ings I don;t especially want to because I have felt that God wanted me to, so it really isn;t about me just not wanting to do it, it really is about what I feel God wants for me, as well as what I actually have time to fit into my life.

It may not be an issue for you, but to Donna and the other parents if we are talking a 2 hour stint every 8 weeks and that is something you feel is too much, that would be an issue for them.

So how much time are we actually talking about per month? You clearly don't want to say because you think it will appear unreasonable of you not to do it. With regard to what God wants you to do, turn that on its head; would he really object to you doing the creche? Or is it a convenient get around?