Need help with saying no to someone while not falling out

silvercar

lostinrates wrote: »

I just glanced, but what about bigger babies and toddlers? That link says children 3 and over doesn't it?

No, all under 8s.

Sambucus_Nigra

I imagine she wants you as well because you are already CRB checked for the other work. So it makes her life simpler.

skintchick

poet123 wrote: »

The crux of the matter for me is whether all the parents do take a turn on the rota, if they do then imo, regardless of whatever else she does the OP should too. If they don't then she should not feel obligated to do so.

OK, so say that they do (I am not sure if they do, I've thrown my old rota away so can't check the names. I know some people on it are not parents of young children though). What if some of them have also been bullied into doing it? Does that make that rule OK?

Is it OK for there to be a blanket rule that has been imposed by one person on their own say-so, which has not been run past the people it will affect let alone been okayed by them?

Really?

If it were a workplace the union would be getting involved!

Saying "I impose this rule on you all and now you all have to do it" doesn't make it right to impose that rule.

And if everybody except one person goes along with it out of a sense of duty or fear of censure, it STILL doesn't make them all right and the dissenter wrong.

So even if all the other parents of young children in church are doing it, and I am not sure that is the case, it doesn't automatically mean that that is right.

It is not a workplace and Donna is not my boss.

borkid

skintchick wrote: »

If they tell me I can;t use the creche

I'd be inclined just to say "OK I won't use the creche I'll not help in the service and my child can sit in with me". Then when anyone asks why just tell them.

I know you think the service would be too long etc but doing it once or twice might just get your point over.

lostinrates

silvercar wrote: »

No, all under 8s.

Thanks! I must have Misread!

Fwiw the only thing I found when googling was a diocese of Salisbury suggestion that crb was not necessarily mandatory but was good practise ( but was not specifically mentioning crèche)

poet123

skintchick wrote: »

OK, so say that they do (I am not sure if they do, I've thrown my old rota away so can't check the names. I know some people on it are not parents of young children though). What if some of them have also been bullied into doing it? Does that make that rule OK?

Is it OK for there to be a blanket rule that has been imposed by one person on their own say-so, which has not been run past the people it will affect let alone been okayed by them?

Really?

If it were a workplace the union would be getting involved!

Saying "I impose this rule on you all and now you all have to do it" doesn't make it right to impose that rule.

And if everybody except one person goes along with it out of a sense of duty or fear of censure, it STILL doesn't make them all right and the dissenter wrong.

So even if all the other parents of young children in church are doing it, and I am not sure that is the case, it doesn't automatically mean that that is right.

It is not a workplace and Donna is not my boss.

Is anyone else complaining though or do they all agree it is a good way to go?

You seem to be assuming that they are all doing it under duress, are they? Or do the majority agree with it or see no issue? If that is the case they will wonder why you are exempt (quite rightly imo)

If all the other parents were on the rota, and I felt like you, I wouldn't do it, but neither would I take advantage of the service on the on the premise that my contributions in other areas should automatically mean I was doing enough. You could be the one out of step but that doesn't seem to have occurred to you.

skintchick

poet123 wrote: »

Is anyone else complaining though or do they all agree it is a good way to go?

You seem to be assuming that they are all doing it under duress, are they? Or do the majority agree with it or see no issue? If that is the case they will wonder why you are exempt (quite rightly imo)

If all the other parents were on the rota, and I felt like you, I wouldn't do it, but neither would I take advantage of the service on the on the premise that my contributions in other areas should automatically mean I was doing enough. You could be the one out of step but that doesn't seem to have occurred to you.

It's not that it hasn;t occurred to me, it's that I understand how our church has worked for the 15 years I've been in it.

As far as I am aware, no one knows about this "rule". I've never heard it before.

I do know of one other parent who doesn't want to do creche because of her personal circumstances, because she wants to come to church for spiritual refuelling not to do childcare which she does enough of at home. She just says yes then doesn't turn up to do it.

The other thing to consider is that I am the only parent with creche-age children who has other church responsibilities. Or should i say mum, because let's face it, the men are never asked to do creche, it's an assumed woman job.

But all the other mums do nothing else at all at church, and most of them have young babies who they cannot leave anyway, so it's rather moot.

If the babies were older, maybe they wouldn't do it.

amus

skintchick wrote: »

Wow! So many responses, thank you everyone.

Someone else said that Donna and Fred don't sound nice. They are our assistant pastor and his wife!! I've had a few issues with leadership recently and the post by WestonDave has really highlighted that for me.

Our leadership has increasingly become domineering and autocractic, and it's something I'm very uncomfortable with, but I've prayed and do feel God wants me in this church, so

The truth is that there is no such rule - Donna and perhaps Fred too have made it up. But we are not a dictatorship and things like that have to be agreed by leadership.

I know the problem with church issues is that unless you "get" church you find it mystifying, and I did hesitate to post on here, but I didn;t want to gossip with other church members about it as I felt it would be undermining of Fred and Donna to do so, and I felt that despite the secular slant on here, there would be some good wisdom. After all, many of the issues are cross-cultural, it's not entirely a church thing.

I'm reading all the replies and taking them all in. Even those I disagree with are helping me clarify why I don't want to do the creche and why I feel it's inappropriate to have this "rule", so it is all very useful, thank you.

I don't mean to offend but to me, Donna and Fred sound like wannabe cult leaders, with classic matching personality traits of one.

You said you're not happy with the leadership and they have become increasingly domineering and autocratic.

Perhaps the fact you're not happy is God's way of telling you he doesnt agree with whats going on?

poet123

skintchick wrote: »

It's not that it hasn;t occurred to me, it's that I understand how our church has worked for the 15 years I've been in it.

As far as I am aware, no one knows about this "rule". I've never heard it before.

I do know of one other parent who doesn't want to do creche because of her personal circumstances, because she wants to come to church for spiritual refuelling not to do childcare which she does enough of at home. She just says yes then doesn't turn up to do it.

The other thing to consider is that I am the only parent with creche-age children who has other church responsibilities. Or should i say mum, because let's face it, the men are never asked to do creche, it's an assumed woman job.

But all the other mums do nothing else at all at church, and most of them have young babies who they cannot leave anyway, so it's rather moot.

If the babies were older, maybe they wouldn't do it.

I thought your husband was asked to do it if you couldn't/wouldn't ?

I just think that in Donna's shoes I would find it hard to ask all the parents to go on the rota if there was one parent who wasn't on it, and who refused to be on it.

It may well be a new thing, it may well need ratifying by your leadership, but if is a majority decision it is only fair that everyone who uses the service takes a turn, it makes it less of a chore for everyone that way. How many hours per month would it take from your other duties if you did your stint?

hardpressed

The matter of CRB checks is very important for all people involved with children and vunerable adults. If your church is not following the guidelines then questions need to be asked. All of those involved should also have done a safeguarding course.