Flight delay and cancellation compensation, Flybe ONLY

Vauban

TheJasperCo wrote: »

Hmm, try not to sugar-coat things haha. I was just curious if there could be scope for legal precedence (given individual, case-by-case circumstances.)

I don't understand what this sentence means.

But if you're asking is there a chance that maybe the strict application of the law could be somehow fudged for your convenience then the answer is no.

Mark2spark

The only other thing you could do is to check flightstats and see if the landing time of 178 minutes late concurs.

stonefences

Hi, thanks for setting up this thread.

On Saturday 22nd February, my wife and I were booked to fly on the 08:50 flight from Belfast to Birmingham with FlyBe. On arrival at the airport, we were informed that the flight had been cancelled due to a "technical issue". We were offered a voucher for £3.50 each to pay for a snack while we waited to be put on the next flight at 12:15.
(It is worth noting that the reason for our flight was to attend a friends wedding in Shropshire that afternoon, and for my wife to sing at the ceremony.)
At approximately 10:30, we were told that the 12:15 flight would be delayed until at least 13:00 due to "crew issues". This was then followed by a further delay until approximately 15:00. At this point, my (very upset) wife and I decided to cut our losses and cancel our trip, as it was apparent that not only would we miss the wedding ceremony, but also the reception meal.
We have asked on three different occasions for our refund to be processed, as promised. On each occasion, we have been told that the payment to our account was "in progress", but as yet, we have not received a penny. We are now out the sum of £120 with nothing to show and are wondering what our next step should be.

Your help will be greatly appreciated!

Vauban

stonefences wrote: »

Hi, thanks for setting up this thread.

On Saturday 22nd February, my wife and I were booked to fly on the 08:50 flight from Belfast to Birmingham with FlyBe. On arrival at the airport, we were informed that the flight had been cancelled due to a "technical issue". We were offered a voucher for £3.50 each to pay for a snack while we waited to be put on the next flight at 12:15.
(It is worth noting that the reason for our flight was to attend a friends wedding in Shropshire that afternoon, and for my wife to sing at the ceremony.)
At approximately 10:30, we were told that the 12:15 flight would be delayed until at least 13:00 due to "crew issues". This was then followed by a further delay until approximately 15:00. At this point, my (very upset) wife and I decided to cut our losses and cancel our trip, as it was apparent that not only would we miss the wedding ceremony, but also the reception meal.
We have asked on three different occasions for our refund to be processed, as promised. On each occasion, we have been told that the payment to our account was "in progress", but as yet, we have not received a penny. We are now out the sum of £120 with nothing to show and are wondering what our next step should be.

Your help will be greatly appreciated!

You are owed a full refund plus €250 each. The FAQs on page one have all you need - but we're talking court action here, either yourself or with a NWNF.

bojod1

My wife’s flight From Belfast City Airport to Newcastle was supposed to depart from Belfast City Airport at 12.05pm and arrive in Newcastle at 13.10, but the flight was cancelled.
With the rest of the stranded passengers my wife was eventually flown to Leeds and then taken by coach to her final destination (Newcastle).
She arrived at Newcastle at approximately 07.00 pm. Six hours late.

Below is the reply received

Having viewed your file I note that flight BE421 on 17th February suffered a technical fault shortly prior to departure which required engineering checks and repairs. There was a technical issue concerning a fault with the aircrafts electronics system, specifically the pitot heat sensor which provides information concerning wind speed and the temperature of the surrounding air during flight. As I am sure you can appreciate without this information it would not be safe to operate the flight and therefore Flybe made the decision to suspend this aircraft in order to make repairs.

As you can appreciate , the safety of our passengers and crew is of paramount importance. I understand the displeasure and disappointment felt due to the cancellation of your flight and I can also appreciate that it is most inconvenient when flights are cancelled as this has a repercussion on the passengers and their commitments and for which I apologise.

However in line with EU legislation when a flight is cancelled due to "Extraordinary Circumstances" where faults are unforeseen and discovered just before or during the flight concerned, which indicate that the aircraft requires to be temporarily removed from service, airlines are exempt from paying compensation. Therefore I will not be able to consider a compensation claim regarding this flight.

In recognition of the delay, and by way of an apology, I would like to offer you a credit note to the sum of £150.00 per passenger in redemption against a future Flybe flight. In order to accept this offer which is valid to travel within 9 months from the date of this letter, please contact our Customer Accounts Team on 0871 522 6186 (10p per minute plus network extras) or email them directly at vouchers@flybe.com quoting your customer relations reference number above.

Once again, I apologise for the inconvenience caused and regret that my response could not be more favourable.

Yours sincerely,



I am reluctant to accept this initial offer, am I right in thinking this...can anyone tell me if i have case for compensation of €250 or eqivalent?

Thanks

OldManAhoy

You do. Although as Vauban says it will require small claims court or NWNF. You could go to the CAA (the supposed independent regulator but they aren't very independent and can't even spell regulation).
This is standard airline response from Flybe don't get sucked into detail: its an unexpected technical fault. They need to prove that its an extraordinary circumstance not just state it. The CAA (who don't make the rules) are of the opinion that faults found during pre flight checks are EC, the EU (who do make the rules) are not. The EU legislation that Flybe refer to is not in fact legislation its a list of 'non-exhaustive' & 'non-binding' examples of EC that the CAA (& others) put together with input from the airlines(!!!) to make it harder to get the comp you are due. Good luck whatever you decide.

Cretec

Just a quick check to get some opinions on my chances of success.

Flight 31st March - BE6874 (operated by loganair)
Manchester to Norwich 08.55 (Arrival 3h15m late).

Plane was stuck in Norwich due to technical issue with stairs.

I've sent the standard template to flybe, got a message back from loganair confirming that the plane was indeed more than 3 hours late.
They said this was out of their control (extraordinary circumstance) due to:

A technical defect was discovered on an earlier service – fault with the aircraft stairs, as it would not be safe to board and disembark passengers from the aircraft, it was necessary to remove this aircraft from service until the fault was rectified. In order to ensure passengers reached their destination as soon as possible, our spare aircraft was brought on line to operate the remainder of the days flying program.

They then concluded with:

Turning to your claim for compensation; In line with our Terms and Conditions of Travel and in accordance with EC Regulation 261/2004; where a scheduled service is delayed as a result of circumstances out with our control, the airline have the obligation to ensure passengers are transported to their ticket destination as soon as operationally practicable and to provide refreshments in line with any additional waiting time. Given that the fault with the aircraft stairs which caused this delay could not have been foreseen and that the aircraft has been maintained in line with the manufacturers guidelines, the airline considers that Article 5 Clause 3 the above regulation is applicable i.e.

An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with Article 7, if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

With this in mind and taking into account you travelled to your destination as soon as it was possible to do so, I must advise that airline believe that we have acted in accordance with the above regulation and that no compensation is payable.

I responded citing Sturgeon case saying they couldn't use technical fault as a defense unless the fault was caused by an EC. They responded and their defence again was:

As this incident was unforeseen and could not be avoided, the airline consider Article 5 Clause 3 of EC Regulation 261.2004 is applicable i.e.

An operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in accordance with Article 7, if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.

They included a statement saying I should contact the CAA.

I responded stating the Wallentin-Hermann case that they can't use the technical defect as a EC (again).

They then came back and gave me the NEB treatment using rule 24:

I appreciate you have discussed this matter with your solicitor and whilst I appreciate he has advised that it is not possible to cite “extraordinary circumstances” for a technical failure, I must advise the National enforcement Bodies (NEB) for the application of the current Regulation (EC) 261.2004. has advised that there are occasions when a technical defects are considered “extraordinary”, e.g

Unexpected flight safety shortcomings (24) – the failure of an on-condition monitored part i.e. parts which should not require unscheduled maintenance or replacement during normal operational service, as in this case, damage to the aircraft steps and main aircraft door.

With this in mind and taking into consideration all reasonable steps were taken in order to ensure passengers booked to travel on flight BE6874 were transported to Norwich as soon as it was operationally practicable to do so, I regret to advise that the airline are unable to accede to your request for compensation under EC Regulation 261.2004 Article 7 as we consider Article 5(3) to be applicable.

I've just now used the Notice before Action template on page 1 in this tread. Reminding them a 3rd time they can't use technical fault as an EC and also reminded them that NEB is a guideline and not European law and copied in the court judgements from both Sturgeon and Wallentin highlighting the relevant areas.

I will take this to small claims court next - but.... any opinions on my chances?

David_e

Cretec wrote: »

I will take this to small claims court next - but.... any opinions on my chances?

Bog standard non-EC in my view but, as there is no time pressure, I'd just park it and see what happens with the Huzar case (search the forum for Huzar if you are no familiar).

Cretec

Bog standard non-EC in my view but, as there is no time pressure, I'd just park it and see what happens with the Huzar case (search the forum for Huzar if you are no familiar).

Huzar appeal confirmed for either 22nd or 23rd May 2014 apparently. So will wait for that outcome then to strengthen my case.

sun-n-moon

I was delayed yesterday in the Isle of Man. My 12.15 flight was showing cancelled when I arrived at the airport. This was not showing on their website 30 minutes previously. They then booked me on their 15.15 flight which was then delayed until 16.45.
I spoke to a member of staff on the plane and was informed that the 12.15 flight had been damaged in Manchester by the Passenger Air Bridge denting the aircraft on attachment.
I was not offered any meal vouchers either and check-in had no info.
As this could be deemed beyond Flybe's control and the IOM not being in the EU does anybody know if it is worth pursuing?
Thankyou.