grandparents finding grandchildren difficult

seven-day-weekend

Mado wrote: »

My children know their needs are not always going to be put before everybody else's.
But not by giving up their seats to perfect strangers who present no obvious greater needs than theirs. If you are in a train that slowly fills up, do you give your seat to a random adult, on the basis that their need may come before yours?

It's called treating children as intelligent beings; exactly what you appear to admire in continental children. It's the same as restaurant offering crap on children's menu, because many think that it's good enough for them rather than seek to offer real choices and develop their taste.

I suppose to those of us who think differently, it's not a matter of 'need'. I thought it was basic good manners that children gave up their seats to adults,( in this country anyway), the same as covering your mouth when you cough or not eating with your mouth open. Maybe it's an age thing, that is what children did in the 1950s when I was a child and I brought my son (born in 1980) up like that too.

I do agree with you abut the children's menus though. I've never understood why it they are such cr£p. In Spain there was no such thing, they had the same choice as everyone else.

I don't feel disdain for children,far from it but don't want to have badly-behaved ones inflicted upon me. What's wrong with that?

The reason I said I don't want to defend myself again is a personal thing from tussling with certain people on other threads. I don't want to do it again, tonight, I am too tired. I have as much right to my beliefs as anyone else and can do without being slated for them. Nothing particularly to do with this thread.

Mado

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I suppose to those of us who think differently, it's not a matter of 'need'.

need was your own word, not mine.

I thought it was basic good manners that children gave up their seats to adults,( in this country anyway), the same as covering your mouth when you cough or not eating with your mouth open. Maybe it's an age thing, that is what children did in the 1950s when I was a child and I brought my son (born in 1980) up like that too.

I don't believe in doing things because that's the way it used to be. Covering your mouth when you cough is a requirement for hygiene and health more than manners... And eating with your mouth open is disgusting at any age, so there is a good basis for both rules.

I don't feel disdain for children,far from it but don't want to have badly-behaved ones inflicted upon me.

Read your own words ( and not just in this thread); you don't come across as someone who has time for children.
That is not a problem in itself, not everyone is keen on children. But don't think that it justifies treating children as second class citizens.

Dunroamin

Mado wrote: »

I think the secret is that the adults talk to them rather than treat the kids as little scroats.

Of course they do but they don't seem to act as children's entertainers all the time. Children seem to be part of the family but not the central focus for everyone.

thorsoak

Mado wrote: »

And why on Earth should they?????
I used to let my children sit in public transport whislt standing myself, as they did get tired after a day out and/ or would be less capable of standing still.
My teenagers would no longer be given preferential treatment, but I would still let my 10 yo sit down if we've had a busy day or had to do a lt of standing already.
Adults can stand perfectly well. I would expect them to give up a seat for an elderly person or a clearly pregnant one or someone with young children, but no more.

Why should your healthy child - for whom you've paid a half fare - sit down when an adult who will have paid full fare is standing? Children can stand perfecly well too!

Sadly your attitude will only cause you more problems in the future

Dunroamin

Mado wrote: »

That is not a problem in itself, not everyone is keen on children. But don't think that it justifies treating children as second class citizens.

Treating children as children isn't the same as treating them as second class citizens.

(By the way, most restaurants I've been to in France offer a children's menu with steak hache, chicken nuggets, pizza and frites looming large.)

Mado

Dunroamin wrote: »

Of course they do but they don't seem to act as children's entertainers all the time. Children seem to be part of the family but not the central focus for everyone.

You don't exactly need to tell me how the French treat their children :whistle:.I grew up there, I visit regularly and I have 20 nephews and nieces and friends with children too. So I know how families treat their children.
In this country, there seems to be 2 options: worship and indulge their every whim, or treat them as second class citizens.
Children are adults in training; treat them as intelligent beings and you are more likely to end up with intelligent adults.

Dunroamin wrote: »

Treating children as children isn't the same as treating them as second class citizens

Asking them to give up their seat for an adult, just because they are older is treating them as second class citizens.
Asking them for give up their seats for someone with greater needs is teaching them to be good citizens.

candygirl

I have a Granddaughter aged 3, and a Grandson aged 1, and see them a lot, and have them to stay over at weekends a lot.I am a relatively young Nanny, so love having them and enjoy them, even though it can be tiring sometimes:D:D

Mado

thorsoak wrote: »

Why should your healthy child - for whom you've paid a half fare - sit down when an adult who will have paid full fare is standing? Children can stand perfecly well too!

Sadly your attitude will only cause you more problems in the future

Have you been on the underground or a bus recently?
the stops and starts aren't exactly smooth, and there are far fewer points for them to hold on to.:think: plus, small people on crowded trains get a bit lost in a sea of legs.
Do you propose that concessions should stand? They haven't paid full price either.

Explain to me why 'my attitude' which, if you have read the thread, is the same as those of many people across the world doesn't cause problems there.
Maybe it's time to learn from others who appear to do a better Job!

Person_one

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

I can't be doing with having to defend myself yet again. Bye.

There's always the option of not being grossly offensive in the first place, worth bearing in mind perhaps.

Person_one

thorsoak wrote: »

Why should your healthy child - for whom you've paid a half fare - sit down when an adult who will have paid full fare is standing? Children can stand perfecly well too!

Sadly your attitude will only cause you more problems in the future

If its all about who paid how much there are quite a few older and disabled people who should be standing up for healthy adults!