Unfair or not?

1940sGal

meer53 wrote: »

I think that there are a lot of things which we don't know about which could cause concerns for the OP. I think this issue is the tip of the iceberg.

16 year olds who feel secure and involved tend not to want to live apart from their Mum. Wonder what has caused her to feel this way ? I'm pretty sure it's not just because of the holiday issue.

But this is my point. A parent can do all in their power to bring the teenager up in a brilliant, loving, caring environment but there are still those that will rebel and act out no matter what. Another poster on here has testified to that using herself as an example.

It's not a perfect example but i did watch an episode of Jeremy Kyle once where a group of mothers were trying to repair their relationships with their daughters. A couple of the daughters were awful and no matter what their mothers tried, they didn't want to know. It happens.

I just don't think it's fair to outright call the OP a bad/cruel mother based on this one incident, as others have. There could be many factors which have led to this 16 year old feeling the way she does. Friends, other family, the society she involves herself with...I think it's worth noting too that the OP has not mentioned anything to do with the girl's father and her relationship with him. That could be another factor.

But i certainly don't think the OP should shoulder the entirety of the blame.

balletshoes

Saturnalia wrote: »

Were the eldest 2 screeching "unfair!" when they got their holidays with their father that the youngest didn't get? Or is it only now they're not the ones being treated while the youngest gets nowt that they think they've got the bum end of the deal?

I don't think thats the point personally. The point, to me, is that the older 2 live with their Mum, have a younger sibling, and a stepdad who also lives with them. So, a resident family of 5. So, on a family holiday, all 5 should at least be given the option to go on the holiday. If the older 2 don't want to go after being given the choice, that might be okay with everyone involved. But to not be even given the choice would indicate that the 2 older ones are not considered part of the family, in the way that the younger one is. As a Mum, I don't see how there could be any other way of looking at it either.

What the older 2 get from their Dad has no bearing at all, in my opinion, on how the Mum should treat all 3 of her children - ie fairly and as much as possible in the same way for each one.

Person_one

meer53 wrote: »

You don't have to have had children to understand how children behave.

But when you have children and also have to deal with a relationship breakdown, and the fallout that ensues when a new family is involved, you tend to look at things in an entirely different way.

Making sure that all the children feel secure and involved in the family is paramount. From what the OP has posted, this doesn't seem to be happening in her case, which won't be helping her 16 year old at all.

Its nothing to do with having children or not and it really irritates me when that gets trotted out.

I don't have children either, but I agree with you, and I'd be deeply concerned about these poor teenagers if I knew them. The OP has had children, obviously, but its not made her any kind of expert on how to care for them, also obviously.

peachyprice

katepnlo wrote: »

After hearing about the 16 year old my thoughts change.
If she is a brat child, who now lives in a flat and not in the family home and refuses to be part of the family unit as she can't stand you both...then to me that says she wants to be all grown up and live on her own....then why would you take her?
I moved out at 16 and never once went on a holiday with my parents again. Nor did I expect to.

She hasn't moved into the flat yet, she left home to live with the druggy/drunk/teenage sex friend, but the talked her into coming home. Apparently she will be moving into the flat soon, so it still living at home.

jayII

Person_one wrote: »

Its nothing to do with having children or not and it really irritates me when that gets trotted out.

I don't have children either, but I agree with you, and I'd be deeply concerned about these poor teenagers if I knew them. The OP has had children, obviously, but its not made her any kind of expert on how to care for them, also obviously.

I think it is fair to say that many people who do not understand the full depth of feeling, stress and so on that parenting brings, until they become parents themselves.

It's not a hard and fast rule but I think it's a reasonable generalisation.

meer53

Person_one wrote: »

Its nothing to do with having children or not and it really irritates me when that gets trotted out.

I don't have children either, but I agree with you, and I'd be deeply concerned about these poor teenagers if I knew them. The OP has had children, obviously, but its not made her any kind of expert on how to care for them, also obviously.

I wasn't saying that having children makes you more qualified to make comments.

What i was saying was that when you are in, or have been, in that situation, for me anyway, it made me even more aware that i had to do everything i could to make life as normal as possible for my kids. That included being civil with my ex, even though i could quite happily have shoved a burning stake up his !!!! on more than one occasion.

It also involved me making sure that whatever i did, was for the benefit of my children, and that i wasn't doing anything for purely selfish reasons. Kids can be horrible creatures sometimes, none of them are perfect, but i would hate it if one day, my daughter or son, turned round and accused me of favouring one or the other. This is the risk the OP has to take if she wants to go on this holiday.

jayII

peachyprice wrote: »

She hasn't moved into the flat yet, she left home to live with the druggy/drunk/teenage sex friend, but the talked her into coming home. Apparently she will be moving into the flat soon, so it still living at home.

It sounds like she desperately needs some 1:1 time with her mum, or at least to be offered this. Nothing builds a teenage girl's self-esteem as feeing that her mum values her and wants to spend time with her (as long as mum is a decent person)!

bestpud

I don't think you are a bad parent - we all make decisions based on where we are at the time and none of us can know the full story.

However, I would definitely have taken the 13 year old.

Person_one

jayII wrote: »

I think it is fair to say that many people who do not understand the full depth of feeling, stress and so on that parenting brings, until they become parents themselves.

It's not a hard and fast rule but I think it's a reasonable generalisation.

Maybe people who think that just don't understand empathy.

Most of us have had parents, most if us know parents, and we talk to them and interact with them, and are capable of understanding something even though we've never experienced it!

There are plenty of parents who don't seem to give a toss about their children, you don't get magic 'parent powers' when egg meets sperm, as this thread very clearly demonstrates!

Anyway, I'm hijacking, I'll stop.

FBaby

It is so unfortunate that you would have made this decision at what seems to be just about the worse possible time. It is pretty obvious that they are a lot of psychological issues in your family and this decision to go away without them could be the last straw.

You might consider that they don't deserve to be treated equally because of their behaviour, but it might very well be that their behaviour is the direct result of you treating them differently, although you might not be conscious of it. We often don't really see it as parents, or too often blame them and their behaviour for you feeling and treating them differently.

In theory, what you've done could have been harmless. My ex went on holiday with his partner and her (not his) children without taking ours. He had never ever taken them anywhere. They could have resented him, but they didn't because except for this situation, he does treat them all fairly. Our kids get to go on many holidays with me, so he didn't feel too guilty about them going and he gave the whole speech about how he was poor and couldn't afford it, but promised them he would take them on their own away the following year and they fell for it (he of course never did!).

The situation here though might very well be that you are giving them perfect justification for how they feel about you and your partner. They feel treated differently and you are given them the proof.

I also have to say I'm surprise no one has picked up on the fact that you are taking your youngest away from school for two weeks, which again could be telling your eldest kids that you care even more about being able to go away on holiday without them then your youngest education, but more importantly, if the 16 is living on her own, who is going to be looking after the 13 year old? What are the consequences of her being looked by someone else? Could whatever arrangement you will have to have in place makes it extra difficult for them?