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Netwizard

NonGeographicalMan wrote: »

In October Naughty Ovivo Mobile was charging calls to normal Spanish landline numbers listed by www.nomasnumeros900.com as alternatives to their 084/7 equivalent 902 numbers at over 1 Euro a minute in breach of the current EU roaming directive pricing cap when they should have been charging them at their standard rates for calls to Spanish geographic numbers. So they are not quite so whiter than white as you make out.

Not sure why I have to care about this. I don't phone abroad, but if I did I use would my GiffGaff sim, where it is 2p a min to a Spanish landline

NonGeographicalMan

Netwizard wrote: »

Not sure why I have to care about this. I don't phone abroad, but if I did I use would my GiffGaff sim, where it is 2p a min to a Spanish landline

No it isn't. That price is for calling Spanish landlines (not starting 900, 901 or 902) when using your GiffGaff phone back in the UK.

GiffGaff's price for calling a Spanish landline number that does not start 900-902 in Spain is 24p per minute and if they decide to class your call to 900-902 alternatives listed at https://www.nmm900.com as a call "outside this pricing band" (as happened with Ovivo) its £1 per minute. That means they will also almost certainly wrongly and illegally charge calls to UK 03 numbers at £1 per minute despite it being illegal to charge any extra for calls to these numbers in the UK under the terms of Ofcom General Condition 17.

So all in all GiffGaff's good deal for calling numbers abroad stops once you have crossed the English Channel. In the USA GiffGaff charges the usual despicable ripoff off price for most cyncial and greedy UK networks of £1 per minute to make or receive incoming calls and a disgusting £5 per MB or £5000 per Gb for data.

See http://giffgaff.com/index/international

and

http://media.ofcom.org.uk/2007/02/13/ofcom-introduces-uk-wide-03-numbers/

redux

NonGeographicalMan wrote: »

No it isn't. That price is for calling Spanish landlines (not starting 900, 901 or 902) when using your GiffGaff phone back in the UK.

GiffGaff's price for calling a Spanish landline number that does not start 900-902 in Spain is 24p per minute and if they decide to class your call to 900-902 alternatives listed at https://www.nmm900.com as a call "outside this pricing band" (as happened with Ovivo) its £1 per minute. That means they will also almost certainly wrongly and illegally charge calls to UK 03 numbers at £1 per minute despite it being illegal to charge any extra for calls to these numbers in the UK under the terms of Ofcom General Condition 17.

So all in all GiffGaff's good deal for calling numbers abroad stops once you have crossed the English Channel. In the USA GiffGaff charges the usual despicable ripoff off price for most cyncial and greedy UK networks of £1 per minute to make or receive incoming calls and a disgusting £5 per MB or £5000 per Gb for data.

See http://giffgaff.com/index/international

and

http://media.ofcom.org.uk/2007/02/13/ofcom-introduces-uk-wide-03-numbers/

Some of that surely lives under the heading non sequitur (it doesn't follow)

Spanish numbers starting in those series of prefixes are not standard landline numbers, but shared cost or premium rate or whatever description suits you.

Unless you've called those numbers from giffgaff while roaming in Spain, it is speculation what they would charge. You may be right, you may not.

Some operators surcharge such numbers, some do not charge extra, and some do not connect.

But whatever the charge would be, it certainly does not follow that a direct call from a giffgaff SIM roaming in Spain to a UK 03 number would be charged £1 a minute , which is what you are saying. The charge would surely be the same as 01 and 02 prefixed landlines.

You might voluntarily choose to use a callthrough service on a Spanish 902 to reach the UK 03, but I really can't understand why.

There are plenty of work around ways of making things cheaper, but I wonder if you are sometimes over-elaborating to the point of confusing yourself as well as your readers.

If you want cheap outgoing calls and free incoming calls on a UK mobile number in Spain, or in USA or in various other countries, then you should look at other SIMs.

If you're happy that having a Spanish mobile number is right for you, then perhaps calling Spanish shared cost numbers will cost a little more than standard landlines. I really don't know. Just for now I don't care. And it doesn't belong on this protracted and ever more digressionary argument of yours as it has nothing whatsoever to do with Ovivo.

Giffgaff know very well that 03 numbers are standard UK landlines as far as tariffs are concerned, and your suggestion that they would charge you £1 a minute while roaming must surely be insupportable.

Those readers who are used to your sometimes wild guesses and false assertions will easily discount this, but some readers might be a bit more gullible. Why you have this self-appointed mission to confuse with irrelevant details is a mystery

NonGeographicalMan

redux wrote: »

But whatever the charge would be, it certainly does not follow that a direct call from a giffgaff SIM roaming in Spain to a UK 03 number would be charged £1 a minute , which is what you are saying. The charge would surely be the same as 01 and 02 prefixed landlines.

I have an Orange Spain Pay As You Go SIM on their SIM Mundo tariff. See http://movil.orange.es/tarifas/llamar-a-otro-pais/tarjeta-sim-mundo/ for details. Orange Spain is a wholly owned subsidiary of France Telecom who also once upon a time used to own Orange UK before they sold it off to Everything Everywhere.

This SIM promises calls to UK landline numbers of 1 Euro cent (0.01 Euros) per minute although hidden away in some very small print is a rather large 30 cents per call connection fee (still that's scarcely little more than one gets charged for connection for an out of bundle call to a UK landline these days by BT).

In their tariff sheet under Ver Detaile for Reino Unido (United Kingdom) they show only the following:-

Reino Unido 0,01€/min.
Reino Unido Local Rate 0,13€/min.
Reino Unido Personal 0,23€/min.
Reino Unido Premium 18,63€/min


Given the existence of Ofcom General Condition 17 there is precisely no reason to think they would not charge calls to UK 03 numbers at 0.01 cents per minute, especially as UK 070 PNS numbers run by bedside hospital phone bandits are only charged at a perfectly reasonable 0.23 Euros per minute. However when I called Plusnet's UK 03 technical support number 5 Euros of credit on my phone vanished in under 20 seconds. Similarly when I called Spanish alternative numbers equivalent to 01 or 02 for certain call centres there listed at www.nmn900.com Ovivo charged me over a Euro per minute even though the published rate is within the EU maximum of 0.29 Euros per minute.


Orange Spain should be perfectly well aware of Ofcom GC17 and the correct charging tariff for connecting calls to UK 03 numbers but despite this they charge it as though it were a sex chat line Premium Rate calls and those Premium Rate calls cost between 15 and 20 Euros per minute with Orange Spain depending what random rate Orange has set this month.


The bottom line is you just can't trust the European telco bandits not to rip you off when they see an opportunity to do so with something they can get away with defining as a non standard call. This includes Ovivo where my calls to normal Spanish numbers not starting 900 to 902 were charged at a Premium Rate but not a Premium Rate as high as the utterly monstrous one levied by Orange Spain.


So my post is on topic as it relates to part of Ovivo's tariff that Ovivo's customers will pay if they use their phone to make calls when roaming elsewhere in the EU.

redux

All that stuff about Orange Spain might be relevant somewhere else, but not here.

It isn't even relevant to replying to me.

You very clearly surmised, as I quoted, that giffgaff would almost certainly charge £1 a minute for calling a UK 03 number while the SIM is roaming in Spain.

I rebutted that. What you've been charged by Orange Spain does not establish a precedent for what giffgaff would charge.

And what you speculate that giffgaff might charge does not establish a precedent for what Ovivo might charge.

Now you've started waffling about what Ovivo might charge, as if to claim relevance, but Ovivo wasn't even mentioned in the post I replied to; giffgaff was.

This scattergun approach, with random pot shots taken at some of your favourite other targets, is not about the subject of this thread.

redux

NonGeographicalMan wrote: »

Orange Spain is a wholly owned subsidiary of France Telecom who also once upon a time used to own Orange UK before they sold it off to Everything Everywhere.

France Telecom did not sell off Orange UK to Everything Everywhere.

The company retains its interest.

Everything Everywhere is a joint (50:50) operation of Deutsche Telecom AG and Orange S.A., formed from the businesses of T-mobile UK and Orange UK

Orange is the current company name of what was previously France Telecom.

It's an achievement to compress so many inaccurate assumptions into one sentence.

d123

NonGeographicalMan wrote: »

Orange Spain should be perfectly well aware of Ofcom GC17 and the correct charging tariff for connecting calls to UK 03 numbers but despite this they charge it as though it were a sex chat line Premium Rate calls and those Premium Rate calls cost between 15 and 20 Euros per minute with Orange Spain depending what random rate Orange has set this month.

Why would you think Orange Spain would either know or care about any OFCOM regulation or guideline?

NonGeographicalMan

d123 wrote: »

Why would you think Orange Spain would either know or care about any OFCOM regulation or guideline?

Because otherwise they are likely to be hauled over the coals by the European Commission when they are found to be charging 180,000% above the rate they should be charging to a standard UK number range that is not Premium Rate.

Or do you perhaps sell double glazing or "free" burglar alarms with £5,000 over five years service charges and so can for some odd reason see nothing at all wrong with any form of commercial activity that provides you with your next Porsche and newly built swimming pool?

marvin

NonGeographicalMan wrote: »

Its clearly extremely sad that people with such empty lives and so few friends in the world that they have nothing else to do than make over 11,000 posts in an online forum seek to validate their own pointless existences by jumping on other forum members in order to make themselves feel smug and important.

You did exactly the same to me when I made a simple mistake in the year I signed up for Ovivo so I see no issue with someone doing exactly the same to you. Although you seemed to be re-writing facts to suit your own benefit

As to your unwarranted and totally disgusting personal attack on yet another user who had the guts to point out you are wrong, again. You seem to have made that many posts here (I know that is an exaggeration but it does feel like that it is so boring) as you seem to have appointed yourself the saviour of the known world from mobile network collapse due to one small provider allowing free things!

I was going to write a lot more but I really can't be bothered it has all been done to death and it is really boring now.

Kernel_Sanders

Netwizard wrote: »

I don't think it makes any difference whether you watch the ads or not. Remember when Ovivo first started, the catch was that you HAD to have a smartphone to be able to watch the ads. Now, you don't have to have a smartphone and can use Ovivo sims in a dumbphone.

Why would ovivo make this change if the whole network was going to collapse!

Why wouldn't they? If they knew collapse was imminent due to falling ad revenue, that would provoke a flurry of new customers; the only reason I won't join.