a fathers responcibilty to his kids

duchy

So couple have a second baby (13 years after their first) shortly after Mother has a stroke and becomes disabled -Husband then leaves her -and shortly after decamps to Scotland to be with new woman taking older child with him -although under his care she gets pregnant -there is conflict and she leaves his new family home to live elsewhere. He then insists the parents of his wife drive a round trip six hour journey as he can't be bothered driving the whole distance himself and appears to be disinclined to consider rail or air as an alternative.

OP he's a prince ! Do you lie awake at nights wondering if you got ill how long it would be before he scarpered leaving you in the lurch too ?

coolcait

Seanymph, I have gone through the OP's posts again, to try to see where and how you came to the conclusion that the OP has no job etc.

I think that you have misunderstood the OP's posts so badly that you have seriously misrepresented her. well, I hope that it is due to misunderstanding.

Firstly, 'no job, no income, living off the father's wage, you have been on benefits and now they are refusing to continue them'.

Yes, the OP posted about going to a medical with ATOS. She was in receipt of ESA, and after the medical she was found to be 'fit for work' - for clerical duties. You have obviously read this post. You have obviously also read the post on the ATOS medical thread which talks about the OP's job - because you have mentioned the nature of the job.

Reading the following sentences, it is quite clear that the OP is in employment, but on long-term sick leave:
"my work doctor n own practice doctor say im unfit for work and i am signed off on sick line";
"in atos eyes i can do office work... but unfortunatley my job isnt a clerical 1";
"your own doc has deemed you unfit to work n in my case my occupational health work doctor too"

A later post on the same thread says:

"told them about my job i care for DISABLED people"

"basically there saying iv to pack in my current job of years to look for an office job"

So, with all of that background, when I read the post you linked to (why that one, out of interest?), it was even clearer that "I've been off work for nearly a year" was reference to long-term sick leave, and "only got hubby's wage coming in" was a reflection of the fact that the OP would be only be receiving Statutory Sick Pay/ESA/ whatever the current system is.

Those posts were a couple of months ago. They indicated that the OP was going to have to go back to work soon. So, she may well be back at work, and she may well be working shifts.
However, she has not lied about being employed.

I've already mentioned that your statement about "Your other post is trying to fraudulently claim your exes PPI" is an unfair and inaccurate spin on what the OP actually posted on that thread.

What worries me is that the way it is worded makes it look like a deliberate spin, rather than a misunderstanding.

I'm quite happy to agree to disagree (with everybody else) on matters of child care/custody/access; the role of fathers; people's rights to move on and move away when a relationshiop ends; people's rights to try to find out information on behalf of their partner...

I can't however keep quiet about the fact that the OP's other posts have been so badly misreprented (and I think the same thing has happened with her posts on this thread too).

coolcait

duchy wrote: »

So couple have a second baby (13 years after their first) shortly after Mother has a stroke and becomes disabled -Husband then leaves her -and shortly after decamps to Scotland to be with new woman taking older child with him -although under his care she gets pregnant -there is conflict and she leaves his new family home to live elsewhere. He then insists the parents of his wife drive a round trip six hour journey as he can't be bothered driving the whole distance himself and appears to be disinclined to consider rail or air as an alternative.

OP he's a prince ! Do you lie awake at nights wondering if you got ill how long it would be before he scarpered leaving you in the lurch too ?

No. The older child stayed with her mother and grandparents in England.

The father had split up with the mother before she had the stroke. He moved to Scotland some time after that.

To date, the father and the grandparents have met halfway. They have now said that they cannot do this any more. At no point has the OP's partner suggested that they make the round trip.

They have also said that they cannot care for the younger child so well as they used to. These developments come a short time after the the older child, who had fallen pregnant while in the care of her mother and grandparents, was kicked out of the grandparents home.

Given the timing of the banishment of the older child, and the subsequent comments from her, there is at least a possibility that the reason the grandparents now want a change is that they have lost their live-in nanny.

(See, I can do sarcasm too!)

That said, apart from the last paragraph, all the above are actual facts.

I really don't understand why people are having so much difficulty following a story which - in terms of who did what and when - seems to me to absolutely clear-cut :eek:

Tiddlywinks

OK - some facts and only facts:

- there is a small child who lives with a disabled mother and elderly grandparents

- the father of that small child has chosen to live hundreds of miles away (even after the child's mother has become disabled)

- the grandparents have contacted the father to say they have problems coping with the situation

- the new girlfriend of the father of the child has come onto this board to voice an idea about moving said child away from the only environment he knows, away from his primary carers (mum, gramps), away from his friends and school - basically, a change of life entirely - to live with them (and possibly her children)

I have no 'baggage' about this issue - I have never been left 'holding the baby' nor have I left someone else in a similar situation. I have nothing personally to gain from voicing an opinion - but I do have an opinion and I have just as much 'right' to join in the discussion.

I continue to post on this thread because I object to the author of this thread appearing to lack any empathy with the ex partner (the child's mother) and her parents. I object to her lack of understanding that a man moving hundreds of miles away from his child might lessen the opportunity for the child to maximise his relationship with his dad.

No matter what else has been said on here, I still struggle to see anything to really demonstrate that the OP has the child's best interests at heart.

Ich_2

To be honest I still don't know if the child's mother is involved with the discussion between the grandparents and the father!

It looks as though the OP's family is where the father has moved to so is at "home"

I'll agree that a 12 hr round trip is getting to the limit of safe driving (having said that I'm driving about 6 hrs later today to go visit a friend) but there are plenty of budget hotels to book an overnight stay, it also ensures that a young child isn't travelling at inappropriate times.

coolcait

Tiddlywinks wrote: »

OK - some facts and only facts:

I'll fill in some gaps in the list of facts:

- a couple who had been together, but not married, for just over a decade ended their relationship

- a child was born just after, or just before, the couple's relationship ended

- the father was mainly responsible for the care of the child

- at some point after the child was born, and at a point after the relationship had ended, the mother had a stroke.

- the father continued to care for the child

- when the child was 18 months old, the father moved to Scotland. He suggested that the child should stay with him, as the main carer.

- his ex rejected this suggestion. Her parents supported her in her decision, and said that they would support her in caring for the child and his elder sibling. They demonstrated an adequate care network for the circumstances.

- the father accepted this. He maintained contact with both children, who spent significant amounts of time with him during the school holidays. He supported them financially.

- the father moved to Scotland because he had a new relationship. They are now married. He has been with his wife for 4 years. The child has stayed with them regularly, and for lengthy periods of time in those four years. As has his elder sibling.

- there is a small child [STRIKE]who[/STRIKE] still lives with a disabled mother and elderly grandparents

[STRIKE]
- the father of that small child has chosen to live hundreds of miles away (even after the child's mother has become disabled)
[/STRIKE] - already noted above

- a couple of months ago, the elder sibling became pregnant at the age of 17. She was also 'kicked out' by her grandparents. I have no idea which event came first, so note only that those two events occurred

- the grandparents have contacted the father to say they have problems coping with the situation

- the [STRIKE]new girlfriend [/STRIKE] wife, and partner of four years of the father of the child has come onto this board to voice an idea about moving said child away from the only environment he knows (not entirely true - he also knows the OP's environment), away from his primary carers (mum, gramps), (who have stated explicitly that they are having difficulty coping with the child) away from his friends and school - basically, a change of life entirely - to live with them (and possibly her children) (who he already knows, and has lived with on numerous occasions over the past four years)

I have no 'baggage' about this issue - I have never been left 'holding the baby' nor have I left someone else in a similar situation. I have nothing personally to gain from voicing an opinion - but I do have an opinion and I have just as much 'right' to join in the discussion.

I continue to post on this thread because I object to the author of this thread appearing to lack any empathy with the ex partner (the child's mother) and her parents. I object to her lack of understanding that a man moving hundreds of miles away from his child might lessen the opportunity for the child to maximise his relationship with his dad.

No matter what else has been said on here, I still struggle to see anything to really demonstrate that the OP has the child's best interests at heart.

I've filled in some gaps in your list of facts.

coolcait

Following on from points made by Tiddlywinks, and others...

Does distance 'lessen the opportunity to maximise the child's relationship with his dad'? Not necessarily. I know lots of men who work away from home for long periods of time. Many of them have a fabulous relationship with their children. I also know parents who live in the same house as their children, and have no relationship worth speaking of with their 'babies'.

The ex-partner refuses to speak to the OP's husband about arranging contact with their child. I'm not sure that this would be any different if he lived next door. So, because of the dynamics of this particular relationship, I do feel that the 'distance' factor is being emphasised too much.

As for the OP's supposed lack of empathy towards her partner's ex, that's not something I have noticed. I have mainly noticed that she hasn't followed the usual route of dissing the ex as a person and as a mother. Personally, I prize that far more than shows of 'empathy'. Especially as I have seen too many 'shows' of empathy which are simply a prelude to putting the boot in!

Also, if the main issue is the child's best interests, then why does empathy for the mother play a role in identifying what is 'best for the child'? As the mother in the Solomon story demonstrates, if giving up your child is the best option for him, then you give him up - without hesitation.

This child lives with carers who - now that the young and able-bodied sibling has been kicked out - are struggling to cope. There will come a point where primary care will have to be taken over by another person.

The father stands willing to do so. His wife stands willing to support him in that - to the extent that she is trying to help him in finding out about the legalities and practicalities. As a wife she has every right to do that. I have no truck with the idea that a woman in that situation must sit and do nothing, just because she has no blood relationship with the child.

The child's father wants to have main care of his son. That's his decision. The OP supports him in that decision. Only one poster has given her kudos for that, and bothered to point out that not all new spouses are so welcoming to their partner's children.

The sticking point is location. I've said before that it is far too facile a 'solution' to say that the father must move back to the area where the child lives.

The jobs market is very different now to how it was four years ago. Not just in terms of the number of jobs available, but also in terms of conditions. As of the 6 April, you have to work for a company for two years, rather than one, before they are protected from unfair dismissal.

Local government jobs may not be as secure as they once were - but they are more secure than others. A job that you've been in for four years, or more, is also likely to be more secure than a brand new job.

Having an income is part of caring for your children. I simply don't see any real long-term benefit in having a jobless, homeless father living in the general vicinity of his child - rather than having a father in employment, with a home, further away.

There has been very little empathy shown to the OP when posters have stated categorically that the husband should move back to where his ex's family lives. There has been a - sometimes gloating - acceptance that this might lead to her marriage ending.

In terms of the 'best interests of the child', how would it benefit him to have the OP and her family removed from his life completely? He has got to know them over the past four years, and is part of that extended family grouping. Where is the empathy for the child under those circumstances?

At the end of the day, the facts show that primary care of ths child is going to have to change at some point in the near future. The issue is how to manage that transition for the benefit of the child.

A good starting point would be for the child's father and the OP to write a letter confirming that they would be happy to have the child for every school holiday, and ask the grandparents to confirm the dates, or let them know the name of the local authority (I still think of my own local authority in terms of its 'old' name. I wouldn't have a clue about the ones in England). Then offer to have him on other occasions as well.

FBaby

I think you are doing exactly the same you are advising others doing drawing conclusions from what you've read. The timescales are very grey and can be interpreted in different ways. Mum had a stroke 4 years ago but dad cared for his son until he was 18 months which could lead to believe that he did leave the relationship after she had the stroke. I personally believe that he started an affair with the OP before or just after the stroke. OP didn't want to move to him because she didn't want to disturb her life and that of her children so he had to move there to be with her. The grand mother didn't write purely to say they couldn't cope OP said the letter was nasty saying he wasn't acting like a responsible father and wanted him to have child more often because they found it hard.he moved but doesn't think it is his responsibility to do all the travelling. My gut feeling is that they acted on impulse and made decisions that suited them then and now face the consequences. of course I might be totally wrong and I do hope so but your facts are no more facts than what others have interpreted.

georgiesmum

killiebabe wrote: »

also the LETTER states that they now expect my partner to travel 6 hour drive there to collect his child and 6 hour drive bk to scotland... they will NOT be meeting us half way as previously arranged.. afterall it was my partners fault for moving so far away. they want us to take the child more than what we do yet there not prepared to come n go with travel arrangements.. any suggestions here??????

But wasn't it his choice to move so far from his son. The mother is disabled and he must know that she would need a lot of help with their son. Not a nice thing to move so far away from him. Why would you expect a mother to give up her child for his dads convenience.

coolcait

FBaby wrote: »

I think you are doing exactly the same you are advising others doing drawing conclusions from what you've read. The timescales are very grey and can be interpreted in different ways. Mum had a stroke 4 years ago but dad cared for his son until he was 18 months which could lead to believe that he did leave the relationship after she had the stroke. I personally believe that he started an affair with the OP before or just after the stroke. OP didn't want to move to him because she didn't want to disturb her life and that of her children so he had to move there to be with her. The grand mother didn't write purely to say they couldn't cope OP said the letter was nasty saying he wasn't acting like a responsible father and wanted him to have child more often because they found it hard.he moved but doesn't think it is his responsibility to do all the travelling. My gut feeling is that they acted on impulse and made decisions that suited them then and now face the consequences. of course I might be totally wrong and I do hope so but your facts are no more facts than what others have interpreted.

It has been perfectly obvious to me that a number of people are convinced that the OP an dher partner had an affair.

I think that when one relartionship breaks down, and another starts, there is always the possibility that an affair lies behind it. I don't personally draw that conclusion from anything that has been said here.

However, I have very much felt on this thread that many people are not responding to the facts of the current situation, but are berating and 'punishing' the OP and her husband for the 'sins' which they supposedly committed four years ago.

As for the OP refusing to move at the time they got together, that is complete speculation, as nothing has been said about that at all.

My own view, as a mother who made the move from England to Scotland, with my family, is that it is financially much more sensible to make the move in that direction, rather than Scotland to England. .