Friendships being ruined by out of control child :(

mucklebones

Just had chance to read the post through more thoroughly and get a better picture, sorry yesterday someone mentioned something relevant to me and I replied to that without thinking. You are totally right in not wanting to socialize with this family. Some women seem not oblivious to their kids behavior as she must see it, but even if she was to get a diagnosis for him that still requires him to be disiplined. There are clearly no boundaries or anything, I dont blame you at all about giving them some distance. Friendships are built from some sort of common values so to me it wouldnt be a huge loss. Mabey if people did start giving her distance she might open her eyes and start addressing his behaviour more appropriately? I know it seems harsh but well the current situation is no good for anyone.

jellyhead

Welshwoofs wrote: »

Well this thread has highlighted one thing to me....

Whilst there is definitely an issue with writing off kids with problems as 'naughty children' there also seems to be a tendency amongst some to try and 'find' a problem to excuse the behaviour of some kids who are simply nasty little $hits who need more discipline in their lives.

Op - the kid sounds like a horrid little monster; you have my sympathies.

The reason who people who've had or known children with difficulties are so quick to mention that this child might have ADHD or autism or whatever is that the 'normal' discipline techniques don't work very well on kids who don't think in the usual way.

Once a kid is diagnosed with something then the parent can be armed with the best techniques to suit the diagnosis. This will include star charts as the OP mentioned, parenting courses, a limit on the amount of time spent on the xbox or just consistency if the mother threatens removal of the xbox.

It is NOT a case of labelling a child then merrily ignoring their behaviour and using the diagnosis as an excuse - it's realising why what works on other kids doesn't work on this kid, and finding the best way to discipline (and build a better relationship with) this kid so their behaviour can improve.

If the OP's friend had been given a diagnosis for her child she would have been advised to use star charts, consistency and clear boundaries.

I'm not saying that different techniques will always work for all children, but this is one who behaves at school, so is more than likely able to modify the way he behaves when his mother is around.

j.e.j.

OP it sounds like you've bent over backwards to help this woman. I don't think there's much more you can do in practical terms. I fear there'll come a time when you (or one of the other mums) will simply say sorry but we can't/won't tolerate this for one more minute, and refuse to have anything more to do with them.

Even supernanny wouldn't be able to help if the parent themself is unwilling to follow things through. There's some strange psychology going on here, I think. It sounds almost as though your friend likes the boy being the way he is..

Janepig

This sounds a bit like alot of the boys in DS's class (except they're 5 and 6). One of them whose mum is one of my "clique" of friends is a right little git, not from any "problem" that he has, just that his parents haven't got a clue. He swears at them (DS was shocked when he went to his house afew weeks ago to a party and heard him swear at his mum), plays hell if his mum hasn't brought him the right sweets when she picks him up from school, and is a right bully.

DS went up to him after school the other day, right in front of me, to show him a coin he'd found, and this kid strolled up and booted DS in the shin, full out. I pulled him up on it (in a fairly nice way) but he just glared at me, as he does. My cousin is close friends with his mum and she said she's afraid to tell him off as she's done so before and his mum has given her short shrift, but tbh she can say what she likes to me, I'd tell him again if he did it again. If DS did something like that and I wasn't there to see it I'd expect him to have a ticking off from one of the other mums.

About two weeks ago, he made one of the other kids cry outside school and went skulking back to his mum, then this other kid came over, still crying, and yelled at him to leave him alone, so he booted him, like he did with DS, mum ignores this, but when the other kid booted him back (fair enough) his mum went beserk with this other kid and marched over to his grandfather to remonstrate with him, ignoring the fact that her little bully boy was now laying into him again!!

There's afew others in his class too - one of them has had something really awful happen in his background, so it's not surprising he's quite violent, and he's friendly with another kid who is tall and overweight and he's a bully too. He used to hit my cousin's little boy when they were in day nursery. There's another one who has kicked DS in the face in the yard when he was sitting on the kerb minding his own business. And even the not so bad ones are still pretty wild. "Playing" on the field after school waiting for the older ones to finish tends to involve swinging each other around by their coats, kicking (although to be fair to DS, he really doesn't do that) and piling each other on the floor. I'm like a banshee constantly calling DS back, but he's got selective deafness!!

It's that bad that I've stopped DS going to a party tomorrow where it's just some of the boys who've been invited. DH really put his foot down over it because DS will get absolutely hammered if he goes. And he's as uncontrollable on times as the others, only he's not a bully, I'll say that for him. In fact, from once being a bit of a toughy, he's turning into a bit of a nancy boy at the moment!!

It amazes me though how many parents will watch their kids hammering others and say nothing!!

Sorry for not giving any advice OP, just good to get that whinge off my chest!!

Jx

Savvy_Sue

Just a thought, but has a video camera ever been discreetly used on one of these get-togethers?

Also, I might be tempted to make sure that your friend's OH knows that you are NOT exaggerating, the things you have seen this child do, and the ineffective responses from your friend, are causing a real problem for his son.

wannabehermit

Hi Bimblebops, I've only just had the chance to read the thread fully and read your replies. It sounds very difficult indeed and seeing as you and some of the other parents in the group have a child with a behavioural dx I would imagine you are all much more tolerant and understanding and less likely to just dump because of bad behaviour. I was going to make the same suggestion as Savvy_Sue has made. Would it be possible to video any of his behaviour? Then it could be shown to the dad or even to show to the mum then she could actually see what she is doing and how it is causing her son to behave. Just an idea.

It sounds as though your friend has just given in to his demands at a very early age and so now it's a struggle to change it so she just goes for the easy option. He does sound like a spoilt brat but also sounds like he has absolutely no respect whatsoever for his mother (and her side of the family), although if she and they have never stood up to him then it's hardly surprising that he has no respect for her.

How do you know her? Is she a uni friend, 'school gate' friend, ante-natal class friend? I mean is it just because of the children that you know her? Do you socialise as a group in the evenings etc? I think if I was in your position I would say to her straight that she's in danger of losing out on the socialising with the children because of her sons behaviour. I'd make it clear that I still wanted to socialise with her away from the children but that if she continues to allow him to get away with the things he does without any comeback then it would be very difficult to continue seeing her with her son. You say you've all told her and tried to help her but have you told her how upset it makes you? MAybe appealing to her that way would cause her to be less defensive as perhaps she feels that she is being attacked and criticised but if you say that you don't care how he behaves and how she disciplines him in her own time is fine but while with you and your friends and children you would like to see her being harder on him especially as it must make life difficult for the other children, I expect they wonder why he goes unpunished for the things he does? I suppose though ultimately the children are growing up and at the age of 10 (if there are other children that age as well) they will start to vote with their feet. They will say that they don't want to go and be with this boy and then the decision will be made for you. Unfortunately I suppose it all comes down to whether she wants help with managing her sons behaviour or whether she just wants an easy life nnd by the sounds of it it's the latter that she's after.

A very sad situation for you and I don't envy you at all being in this position. At the end of the day you have to decide on what is best for you and your own children, just another thought, perhaps you could meet with her in an adult only situation but still take her son out with your family from time to time or have him at your house? That way you are still including her and her son but not suffering any of the bad behaviour that you see when he is with her.

Bumpmakesfour

I'm in a similar position to you OP.I have three kids,my eldest has ADHD/aspergers so can definately be umm "testing".We are part of a nice group of parents at school who have been friends since nursery and generally the children play very nicely together.There is one boy who gets away with murder and his poor mum just cannot control him.Like your friends son though he behaves for everybody else which makes the whole sorry situation even more annoying.
Wherever he goes you'll find a child crying and an angry parent ready to explode :(He'll laugh at mums attempts to discipline him and punishments are never dished out.
Like you I've tried my best to help but have finally given it up as a lost cause as,unfortunately,have four other parents in the group in quick succession.It's been truly awful seeing the tears and distress from his mum this week but it came to a point where my own childrens enjoyment of things and their personal safety were becoming an issue.I'll always be there for my lovely friend,she is a lovely,lovely lady.Perhaps in time her son will grow up and learn that the way he is with other kids isn't acceptable,maybe he won't,who knows.All I know is that I am sick to death of seeing my children hurt or upset and also of watching a lovely mummy being treated like dirt by an 8 year old
Good luck and hope you find a solution that works for you xx