I don't like my mother!

margaretclare

I am so sorry about all this. I'm speaking from the opposite side of the coin, you see. My one surviving daughter could have written that title 'I don't like my mother!'

When children are born they don't come with a 'how to' manual. Most of us, as parents, do the best we can, according to our resources and our knowledge. These things will never be perfect. We'll never be able to do everything that we'd have wished, or that our children would have wished.

I sometimes watch the family rows and bitter disagreements on the Jeremy Kyle Show. I only watch it because I am fascinated by the way human beings conduct their relationships, a legacy from my degree in Behavioural Sciences, although that's a few years ago now. I sometimes think, if I was sitting there and had all the accusations hurled at me that I hear being hurled among family members, what could I say in return. Well, only one thing. 'If you want to trot out a list of all that I've done/failed to do over your lifetime, the last 50 years in fact, then I could produce a list of my own. Things that you've done to me which hurt bitterly, but not only to me, to those who're not here any longer. Your late dad and your late sister, for instance. I don't choose to. I look forward and not back, and even if you don't like my second husband, it's none of your business because I am happy and making the most of the time I have left'.

It all started just after she passed the 11+ and was at a good girls' school in Kent. The pilfering, the shoplifting, then the running away (to see the Bay City Rollers, who they?) the staying out all night at a time when it was extremely dangerous in West Yorkshire (the Ripper case), and later again, the runaway wedding, and I've never seen anyone, man or woman, cry as her Dad cried that Sunday morning when we were told. I could write a book, but what's the point.

I've not been the perfect Mum. Who ever is? I heard a man on TV last evening, on John Humphrys' investigation into benefits, say that if he went to work he wouldn't be with his children. I always worked. My first husband had heart disease and was on a downwards spiral over 20 years. We could have all lived - lived? - on some kind of benefits over those years, but I can't imagine it. So I had a career, and as my son-in-law said when we eventually got to meet him 'he'd never heard of a mum who was at university'.

Nowadays I don't expect anything of any of them. I don't get birthday or Christmas cards from my own descendants, only from my step-family and good friends. I'm mainly in contact with one GD and I help her. She's just in process of redecorating her council flat, her mum helped her with 'mum's taxi' transport for her wallpaper and I sent her some money. Wouldn't it be nice if her mum and I could compare notes? I made a silly mistake about 4 years ago and I've been told 'stay out of my life'. Even when I apologised she won't accept it. I even congratulated her when she gained a 2:1 Honours in Classics at the university where she does admin, but she 'doesn't want to take it any further'.

I don't know why I've written all this. I suppose, reading about all these mums who were addicted to this or that substance and yet demand attention, it just got to me. I'm sorry for all of you. My stepdaughter is more of a daughter to me now. I'm proud of my step-granddaughters who're at public school and I enjoy going to things that they're involved in - concerts, plays, carol services - even though they're a long way off. I don't care how far. I was never allowed to go to my daughter's graduation or that of my grandson (who was a mature student at the university where I was a mature student, although when I was there it was a polytechnic). If they don't want to know then there's nothing I can do about it. Live for what I have, and that's a lot. Life is a b*tch, but in Woody Allen's words, it's better than the alternative.

Kaz2904

Nixer wrote: »

There's a twist with mine, in that any attempt from me to withdraw effort (she's elderly and doesn't drive and so needs help with shopping and errands but she could easily afford to pay someone to help, she just expects me to do it instead) leads to her playing up and sometimes threatening to cut me out of her will or worse.

My own Mother has always said this to us children from when we were small. She's quite open about the fact that she's going to leave everything to either the RNLI or a cats home (Yes she really is that mad cat lady).
I'm interested to why this keeps you going back? If someone has to manipulate you by threatening the withdrawal of money, they are not worth it and you will probably find that you don't inherit anything anyway.
How much are you expected to inherit anyway? I would gladly give away thousands of pounds to never have to have that awkward uncomfortable silence on the phone because she's rung and she's too drunk to witter on about herself or her cats.

My mother is similar to the original poster's mother. We too had golden child (my older sister) and devil child (me).
We were lucky enough to have been taken in by my Aunty and Uncle a few times over the years so really they raised us- they were the only ones who did any parenting to us certainly.

I'm sure that my sister is more damaged than I am over the whole experience because I cut her off years ago. I have the very occasional phone call with her but nothing at all. She's seen my children a couple of times and was never allowed to be left in the room alone with them.

I think the worst thing she did was found out I was in labour with DD (fluke phone call). She then made a nuisance of herself for the rest of the day ringing the hospital. She then rang the wife of a colleague of my step father who worked in A&E reception and somehow she found out that I'd had a girl. She then phoned my sister and told her I'd had a DD. Biatch!
My best friend told me that because she was with my sister when the phone call came and she said I ought to know. My sister was cross that she'd told me but it is not normal behaviour is it? If I'd found out sooner or when I hadn't just been given a bundle of screaming pinkness that didn't sleep for 18 months :eek: I would have followed it up with the hospital. There is no way she should have been able to get that information and to get it via a back door is just despicable.

Someone asked what OP's grandparents were like, from reading about this subject before, there can sometimes be a long line of narcissists. Not always though. My Grandparents certainly weren't but I don't know if their parents were *shrug*.

Good luck ladies with your Mother. You will need to reserve lots of chocolate time over the coming times I think

happyhaddock_2

Margaret how sad that you are no longer a part of your daughters life, but thank you for showing 'the other side'. I think the difference between you and our mum is that you are aware of your shortcomings and make allowances for other people's. Unfortunately, our mum is unable or unwilling to do that, she has done nothing wrong, and even goes as far as 're-writing history' so that the bad things never happened. She would never admit or reveal the things that have gone on, appearance is everything to her.

Thanks again Margaret, I'm so glad you've found happiness with your step-daughter.

margaretclare

Thank you, HH. One thing I swear to God I shall never do is play the 'old and lonely' card. I've driven through snow before now and to me, internet shopping is one of the best inventions ever, along with internet banking.

On one of the last occasions I saw my daughter she was in hospital in Leeds and she was still doing her Classics studies. I should be able to be proud of her because she really is a linguist, had to learn Ancient Greek (she already speaks modern Greek) and was reading about the Mycenaeans. DH was with me and he happened to mention that he'd never heard of the Mycenaeans. She turned to me and said 'How can you live in this cultural desert?' I felt the anger rise, but I forced it down and didn't respond. I could have said 'DH has a lot more sterling qualities and is a very intelligent man, never mind that he hasn't studied the ancient Greeks!' I could also have said 'I'd bet any money that your husband, who knows how to drive lorries, has never heard of them either!'

I was angry about the treatment she received in the NHS and I wrote about it in response to a news item. That's what she can never forgive. OK, it was stupid. I tend to let my love of words run away with me. However, who ever remembers these things - you read a comment in a newspaper online column and I bet no one, except her, still remembers it. My late husband never got to walk either of his daughters down the aisle, because he died the year before younger daughter's wedding in 1993. So she walked on her own although there was no lack of people who'd offered. 'It was my dad's job, he's not here, no one can take his place'. Good lord, did I eat huge helpings of humble pie because she wanted her nephew and nieces involved in her wedding, and they were. One of the loveliest occasions when we were all together. One of the last such occasions.

I have a lovely stepson, the dad of the 2 girls who won scholarships to public school. And my stepdaughter, who we've recently had to support through recovery from marriage breakdown. And my eldest GD. I do what I can to help her. She's a bit like me, fiercely independent. I have nothing but contempt for older people who play the 'old will-rattling game' (The Victorian novelist Samuel Butler, 'The Way of all Flesh'). It's not new, you see!

happyhaddock_2

Well Margaret it seems to me, after reading that, that you have been treated unfairly by your daughter. I'm sure you only wrote the letter out of feelings of love and consideration for her and it astounds me that someone as obviously intelligent as her can not see that. I can't imagine what it feels like not to be part of your child's life, indeed I'm struggling to stop contact with my own mum, even though we have good grounds to and have been treated very badly by her.

It sounds as though you have a good and happy life with people who love you though, we have to count our blessings x.

Ames

grey_lady wrote: »

I wonder, with people like this - why? was it how their parents were and they never learnt any better? - not that, that's an excuse.

My mum had a terrible childhood - she wasn't planned or wanted and boy did she know it. She was even told that had abortions been legal then, she wouldn't have been born. One thing I'm really, really ashamed of is not believing her when she said she'd been sexually abused. She 'remembered' it at the same time that she 'remembered' being in my grandma's womb, she was having very dodgy counselling at the time. When we were planning her funeral my grandad let slip it was true. So yes, it was a continuation of her upbringing. My sister's absolutely adamant she's not going to have children, she's so determined to break the cycle.

happyhaddock wrote: »

Thanks MM I've read the toxic parents thread on Mumsnet, been doing a lot of reading lately lol.

I forwarded the thread to my sister so she could see the level of support there is and to show that WE have done nothing wrong. Everything we have said is true and has happened and if outsiders can see how utterly unfair and terrible our upbringing and adult lives have been then at least we know it's not us as fault for having these bad thoughts. Thanks so much for this.

I would also add that we are both on medication, I have been on anti-depressants for over 10 years, they've definately keept me sane and my poor sister has had to take so many different drugs, and been in hospital so many times that I've lost count.

Thank you again for all the support and encouragement it really does mean a lot.

Again, you could be talking about me and sis. She's not on medication, but I've had serious mental health problems since my mid teens. I was diagnosed with bipolar, but my current diagnosis is cyclothymia (a kind of mini bipolar) with anxiety and affective symptoms. I have to take loads of meds, I've taken overdoses in the past and I self harm.

happyhaddock wrote: »

Thanks for sharing that Nixer, our mum is the same old, doesn't drive and expects us to be at her beck and call. It's a 30 mile round trip for me to go and see her, which doesn't sound much but I'm on a debt management plan and money is very tight, another thing she doesn't understand. Thank god for internet shopping is all I can say

It's the 'old and on her own' bit that makes us feel so guilty. I said to my sister, in mums head she has done nothing wrong so doesn't understand why we don't want to go and see her or talk to her, SHE is the victim and we are being nasty to her. All these feelings have been kept bottled up by us for years and it's only since dad died, and more recently since my sister and I were re-united that they've really come to a head. We both agree though we can't face another 10 years of this.

Yep, that's exactly how my mum was.

Margaret Clare, I think there's a huge difference between you and the parents we're talking about. You did your best and made a few mistakes, as everyone does. These women didn't do their best for their children, just for themselves. And I'm not sure that they can be said to have made any mistakes, as most of it was very deliberate.

Thanks whoever mentioned the book, I think I'll have a look for it.

margaretclare

Yes, sexual abuse did happen in previous generations. My late first husband could hardly bear to go and visit his mother when she had Alzheimer's and was in a home. The staff were always phoning him and trying to pressurise him to go - 'she's old and lonely', yes, the old emotional blackmail! Every time he went she mistook him for his late paternal grandfather (there was quite a likeness) and used to berate him for 'interfering with her' when she'd been a young bride. Also incest used to happen. A girl who used to live next door when I was very little, pre-WWII, had an 'aunt' who was actually her mother. Catherine Cookson's autobiography 'Our Kate' mentions the same thing.

RAS

Scape_Goat wrote: »

The last time I spoke to her was Wednesday, after receiving a phone call from her, screaming to never ring or call to see her again, so I haven't! ........

We have both had history re-written and i doubt my own sanity now. At least I can say though, that at least something brilliant has happened, me and my dear sister are back together where we belong and this time, she will never come between us. ...

I still remember the phone conversation between my sister and I; I lost it and went into a rant about the way our mother misrepresented my life to big herself up. DONG, sister explained rather hesitantly at first how .....; she was playing both of us off against each other. By the end of the conversation we both admitted we were seeking help to deal with the feelings about her and had both been advised that this was not and had never been normal parenting.

Fortunately we never got to a golden grandchild because we limited contact. I think that if you need to explain some of the background, then you and happy haddock would be wise to ensure that the information about the past and present comes from happy haddock, rather than from you.

make_me_wise

happyhaddock wrote: »

I'm "lucky" as I'm the 'goldenchild'and have got off fairly lightly. Still neglected as a child but not had to put up with the vitriol and spitefulness that my poor younger sister has been subject to all her life,to the point that she has severe mental problems and has been having treatment all her life.

So to my actual question. I don't feel as if I want to see her or have any contact with her but is this a really bad way to feel because Dad is no longer there and I feel a sense of duty. I feel like I could happily cease contact as she hasn't been there for much of my life but does that make me a bad person?.

You owe her absolutely nothing. You need feel no sense of duty. This individual, sorry but I cant refer to her as a person after what you advised in the paragraph I have highlighted, treated you and your sister appalingly.

Walk away, lead a full and happy life, surround yourself with people who love and care for you. Concentrate all your efforts into your sister, the person your mother has reduced to at least half the person she should be by the sounds of it.

If I get slated for this so be it, but your mother deserves only to live a lonely, sad end to her life with no-one there for her, maybe then she will understand that her cruel ways have consequences. She will still not understand how she made you and your sister feel as you suffered this and far worse as children.

happyhaddock_2

Well I am sat here stunned now, the last few posts have really hit home and you all seem to of been able to pinpoint exactly how we are feeling and what we have gone through, thank you.

To pick up on a couple of points:

Ames: That is so sad, and your situation does seem similar to ours. We do not know what happened in my mum's past as no-one ever talks about it. I wouldn't like to think of abuse but can't rule it out.

RAS: That is just what she has been doing to us all our lives. She uses our successes as hers, but is actually seething with jealousy that we have more than her or better than her, it's ridiculous. She has always put my sister down and told me all the bad things she's done, she also used to do this to my Dad when my sister was younger. She says she can remember sitting on the stairs when she was about 10 listening to mum telling a pack of lies about her to dad, making out that she was really bad. She used to go to bed crying
That is an excellent idea of your's as well, for me to gently tell my niece some of what has been going on, then there is no conflict of feelings for her mum. Thank you.

And MMW: If only I was brave enough to do as you suggest, I do think the time is approaching though when things will definately come to a head as neither of us can continue as we are. Thanks.