Which way around should it be?

balletshoes

**curlywurly** wrote: »

It's not at all religious in our house. We don't have any religion. For us it is a time of year, not one day, where we enjoy the company of friends, colleagues and most importantly family, where generations of our family have created everlasting memories of tradition involving fun, happiness, Father Christmas, presents (from the VERY silly to the much-wished-for), lots of food and treats, a sparkly tree, hopefully snow (alas not often), cards sent to and received from old friends we don't see often, watching old films on TV (plus whatever TV specials they wheel out that year), time off work, and total amazement and glee on the faces of the children.

I will never forget the look on my daughter's face when she first believed in Father Christmas - the finding of the stocking, the amazement of FC knowing exactly what she wanted, the year that FC left a footprint of snow by the fire, the pure joy of seeing the half-eaten carrot and the crumbs of the mince pie... etc etc ... I wouldn't change any of that for the world, and my daughter now 12 has not suffered in any way by believing in a Fairy Story...

Nowadays, aside from the special presents, our Christmas day is a chance to celebrate just being together, and to be thankful for everything we have ... religious or not, I think it's nice to take some time to do that, and for us Christmas is that time. It has absolutely nothing to do with religion for us.

awww you just made me go all goose-bumply :).

Spendless

Sticking tinsel round a tree isn't religious. You don't have to put an angel or star on the top. Eating turkey isn't religious, nor is pulling a cracker or sending a card. Most Christmas cards don't have anything nativity or church related on them.

Torry_Quine

mildred1978 wrote: »

It's probably more of a "winter festival" than Christmas without the religion, but people seem to get very offended by that suggestion.

I don't understand AT ALL how "Christmas doesn't have to be religious". How can it not be?

I agree that Christmas should be religious but many are not as honest as you and 'celebrate' it without even a nod to what it is actually about.

Spendless wrote: »

Sticking tinsel round a tree isn't religious. You don't have to put an angel or star on the top. Eating turkey isn't religious, nor is pulling a cracker or sending a card. Most Christmas cards don't have anything nativity or church related on them.

These things are the extras which aren't needed to celebrate Christmas but are optional, sadly to many they have become the most important things.

You're right about the cards, it is very difficult to get appropriate cards these days

Hub

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

I couldn't disagree with you more. I don't believe or accept that it's human nature to lie. I can't help but wonder why you believe that actually.

I've never said anything like that to either of my children, and am as sure as I can be that I haven't ever lied to either of them, so I see no reason why that should change. I think honesty is incredibly important. Or rather, I don't see any benefit in lying. It's never worth it in the long term. I don't understand why it would be preferable to lie about biscuits being finished (for example) than to simply explain that I'd rather they ate something healthier/more filling and making a few suggestions for them. Or just let them have the biscuits!

Mostly, I'm gobsmacked that anyone thinks it's normal to lie, especially to one's own children. What message does that send them?

I'd also rather be deluded than think it's normal, and thus justify, lying to my own children on a regular basis (although I accept the above examples are fairly harmless lies.)

Of course you disagree. That's part of your delusion. I'm not denying the importance of honesty any more than I'm condoning lying, but you touch on it yourself. Everyone lies. Black or White. Black lies or White lies. Deliberate or accidental. Voluntary or involuntary. Pathological or the opposite of pathological. Harmful or harmless lies. And they do it to anyone or everyone else for a million and one different reasons. Not all of them as sinister as Santa.

Everyone.

barbiedoll

I'll apologise in advance if I offend anyone but some of you "modern" parents do make me laugh!

Are you really going to deny your child the chance to be in the school Christmas play? I can remember when my son came home from school aged 4, excited beyond belief because he was going to wear a swan costume (goodness knows why!) and he had to sing a song, along with all of the kids in his class. Are you going to deny yourself the teary-eyed experience of watching your kid on the stage all dressed up and waving to you, missing his steps and forgetting his lines? Are you honestly not going to waver when he stops outside Santa's Grotto in the local shopping centre, just so that you can justify your non-belief?

If you're anything like most parents, most of your good intentions will go out of the window sooner or later. I always told myself that I would never be one of those parents who breaks their neck for the latest "must-have" toy. Yet a few years later, I found myself sitting at the computer at 4.30am, bidding on ebay for a second-hand Spiderman toy from America, which to this day, 8 years later, remains my son's pride and joy. We are all atheists in my family, including my son, now that he is old enough to make an informed choice. But Christmas for us, is a time for family, for giving and receiving gifts and cards and for looking forward to the new year. My Muslim friends celebrate it, my Sikh brother-in-law and his family celebrated it, the religion for most of us, is irrelevant, sad though that may seem to some people.

As for never telling a lie...really?
Are you going to tell your child that their home-made Mother's day card is really a bit of a mess?.....No
Are you going to tell your child that their first attempts at baking cakes actually taste and look quite horrid?.....No
Are you never going to let your child believe that toys do come to life when they are asleep?....No (not if you have a heart anyway)
Are you always going to be totally honest when your teenager asks you if they look ok with their strange hairdo and their weird clothes?...No.

You've got all this and more to come...just you wait and see!

Torry_Quine

barbiedoll wrote: »

I
But Christmas for us, is a time for family, for giving and receiving gifts and cards and for looking forward to the new year. My Muslim friends celebrate it, my Sikh brother-in-law and his family celebrated it, the religion for most of us, is irrelevant, sad though that may seem to some people.

It's sad because even though as atheists you don't believe in God you don't even acknowledge that that is the heart of Christmas.

mumps

jellyhead wrote: »

My inlaws get them from a stall at their church. I don't know if a christian bookshop would sell them?

Thanks, my church doesn't have them, next time I am near a Christian bookshop I will have a look, trouble with living in a small town is no bookshops.

barbiedoll

It's the heart of Christmas for christians, just not for the rest of us. As other posters have said, the winter celebrations have their roots in religions much older than christianity.

Same with Easter, although it's probably the most important time of year for christians, the rest of us are simply celebrating the coming of Spring, as people have done for thousands of years.

I don't care who celebrates what, but I feel that even atheists are allowed to enjoy holidays and festivals, even if religious groups have claimed them as their own. And I'm sure that most christians really don't begrudge us heathens our couple of days off and a nice dinner to break up the dreary winter months.

barbiedoll

And for nice Christian Christmas cards and a lovely Advent calendar, have a look here....

http://www.traidcraftshop.co.uk/c-163-fair-trade-advent-calendars.aspx

Torry_Quine

barbiedoll wrote: »

It's the heart of Christmas for christians, just not for the rest of us. As other posters have said, the winter celebrations have their roots in religions much older than christianity.

Same with Easter, although it's probably the most important time of year for christians, the rest of us are simply celebrating the coming of Spring, as people have done for thousands of years.

I don't care who celebrates what, but I feel that even atheists are allowed to enjoy holidays and festivals, even if religious groups have claimed them as their own. And I'm sure that most christians really don't begrudge us heathens our couple of days off and a nice dinner to break up the dreary winter months.

Yes atheists are allowed to enjoy holidays but at least acknowledge that without Christianity in this instance they wouldn't even have the holiday.

Easter is a very important time for Christians and is not about the coming of spring!