Which way around should it be?

JC9297

If only people who are practising Christians celebrated christmas in this country it would be a minority festival.

mumps

barbiedoll wrote: »

It's the heart of Christmas for christians, just not for the rest of us. As other posters have said, the winter celebrations have their roots in religions much older than christianity.

Same with Easter, although it's probably the most important time of year for christians, the rest of us are simply celebrating the coming of Spring, as people have done for thousands of years.

I don't care who celebrates what, but I feel that even atheists are allowed to enjoy holidays and festivals, even if religious groups have claimed them as their own. And I'm sure that most christians really don't begrudge us heathens our couple of days off and a nice dinner to break up the dreary winter months.

Of course atheists are welcome to enjoy any festival they like. I love going to festivals, if I am invited to say a Hanukkah party I look it up, find out what it is about, buy an appropriate gift etc. All these festivals have a meaning, I don't want to exclude non Christians from Christmas but it just seems a shame they can't have their own festival. Having said all that I have a Jewish friend, who I have celebrated Hanukkah with, and she describes herself as a secular Jew. This seems to mean she keeps the traditions but doesn't actually believe or attend synagogue. Maybe we actually have some secular Christians as well.

Where I work we work all year round so lots of us are in on Christmas Day, it does make me smile sometimes as the people who are most vociferous about their lack of belief are the ones who are in on the 1st January booking the following Christmas off as soon as the holiday rota starts for the following year, holiday year actually starts on 1st April. I actually enjoy being in on Christmas Day spending some time with service users and go home to a late Christmas dinner. If I get the chance of having my grandchildren for the day I would take it off but other gran gets dibs on Christmas.

dirtysexymonkey

Torry_Quine wrote: »

Yes atheists are allowed to enjoy holidays but at least acknowledge that without Christianity in this instance they wouldn't even have the holiday.

Easter is a very important time for Christians and is not about the coming of spring!

well without christianity theyd have family, the tree, the feast, the presents, the other decorations - which for the majority is christmas, so they would have the holiday.

do you aknowledge how 'christmas' is largely a pagan festival overtaken by the romans in an effort to more easily convert the pagan population? before they slaughtered them that is.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

It's going to be hard for a small child, when faced with schoolfriends all excited about Christmas and parties and presents, to be the kid who has nothing. And all because Mum had someone die at Christmas years ago and Dad doesn't like his parents.

Lots of people have relatives die at Christmas. It happens.

Why make a child's short time as a child less joyful and less special, just because you have unpleasant memories you are unprepared to put aside for his benefit?



Said as someone who does not subscribe to any religion and never has done.

A gentle 'well, yes, that's what some people believe' in regards to the Nativity and then 'and some other people believe this' in reference to Channukah, Yule or whatever.


It doesn't hurt to have a bit of childhood magic. And it certainly doesn't hurt to soften hard, aggressive principles so that an innocent child doesn't become the hated one in school because 'they just chucked my Christmas card I made him in the bin, ate my sweets and didn't even get me a card back and said there isn't any Father Christmas and songs about donkeys and shepherds are stupid'.


Guaranteed way to create a Billy No Mates, there. Trust me, I've seen one in every class my kids have been in.



And no, the children with different religions do not get the same treatment, as they are usually quite capable of tolerating the existence of Christmas, even in the context of 'other people believe this, which is why we send them cards back to be respectful of what they have done'

jackyann

This has become a thread about celebrating Christmas (or not).
Can I pick up on something else? Husband's grandparents are likely to be quite elderly.
I have had quite a bit of experience in my family of elderly people finding new ways of doing things rather confusing. I'm not talking about florid confusion or dementia, but more a sort of grey area - they can cope with the familiar, but not the unusual.
I remember one friend who moved some distance from her grandmother - who then couldn't cope with the idea of posting presents at Xmas. She had no idea of how to choose a gift that could be wrapped up safely and put in the post - it was a new concept & confusing.
So I just wondered whether these elderly people may appear to cope very well with everyday life and familiar ways of doing things, but can't work out what to do with a family who are doing things "differently".

mildred1978

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

It's going to be hard for a small child, when faced with schoolfriends all excited about Christmas and parties and presents, to be the kid who has nothing. And all because Mum had someone die at Christmas years ago and Dad doesn't like his parents.

Where on earth did you get that from?? It has little to do with any of that - did you read any of my posts?

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Why make a child's short time as a child less joyful and less special, just because you have unpleasant memories you are unprepared to put aside for his benefit?



Said as someone who does not subscribe to any religion and never has done.

A gentle 'well, yes, that's what some people believe' in regards to the Nativity and then 'and some other people believe this' in reference to Channukah, Yule or whatever.


It doesn't hurt to have a bit of childhood magic. And it certainly doesn't hurt to soften hard, aggressive principles so that an innocent child doesn't become the hated one in school because 'they just chucked my Christmas card I made him in the bin, ate my sweets and didn't even get me a card back and said there isn't any Father Christmas and songs about donkeys and shepherds are stupid'.


Guaranteed way to create a Billy No Mates, there. Trust me, I've seen one in every class my kids have been in.



And no, the children with different religions do not get the same treatment, as they are usually quite capable of tolerating the existence of Christmas, even in the context of 'other people believe this, which is why we send them cards back to be respectful of what they have done'

My objection to it is that it is all based on lies, and no, I won't conform just because other people choose to lie to their children. You make it sound like showing my child the wonders of the world rather than the contents of the Argos catalogue is some form of abuse. :rotfl:

mildred1978

jackyann wrote: »

This has become a thread about celebrating Christmas (or not).
Can I pick up on something else? Husband's grandparents are likely to be quite elderly.
I have had quite a bit of experience in my family of elderly people finding new ways of doing things rather confusing. I'm not talking about florid confusion or dementia, but more a sort of grey area - they can cope with the familiar, but not the unusual.
I remember one friend who moved some distance from her grandmother - who then couldn't cope with the idea of posting presents at Xmas. She had no idea of how to choose a gift that could be wrapped up safely and put in the post - it was a new concept & confusing.
So I just wondered whether these elderly people may appear to cope very well with everyday life and familiar ways of doing things, but can't work out what to do with a family who are doing things "differently".

Thank you. There may be an element of that going on. However, they manage perfectly well to send cards to their other great grandchildren, have them visit, take them out etc. it's just OH's mum's grandchildren they don't seem to be bothered with.

Lotus-eater

mildred1978 wrote: »

My objection to it is that it is all based on lies, and no, I won't conform just because other people choose to lie to their children. You make it sound like showing my child the wonders of the world rather than the contents of the Argos catalogue is some form of abuse.

Lots of kids things are like that, fairies, monsters, santa, the tooth fairy, the excitement of waiting for something special.
I always swore I would never lie to my kids about santa, but the look of wonder and joy and the way they babble about it to each other is wonderful. I wouldn't miss it for the world.
They have the rest of their lives to wake up and smell the gravy, childhood is time for fun and excitement, a little myth and magic never hurt anyone to date.

Sambucus_Nigra

I may have missed this, as I was out yesterday - but do you know why they are not keen on OH's mum's grandkids - has anyone ever asked them?

arbroath_lass

Mildred, from this thread and a few other posts I've read you come across as rather a serious person. Try to concentrate on what gives you joy and let the other stuff wash over you. Cards for Christmas or birthdays are not worth all this trouble.

We also lost a dear family member at Christmas. I know he'd be horrified if we stopped celebrating because of him. Same goes for birthdays or anniversaries. Raise a glass to them on the day and remember the good times.