Which way around should it be?

dirtysexymonkey

mumps wrote: »

I think it is great that people celebrate a pagan festival, I have been to some, but why call it Christmas? I wouldn't call Easter Passover or say I am celebrating Diwali when I put my Christmas lights up. If you celebrate solstice for example why not say that?

It really isn't about saying people can't celebrate in December unless they are Christians it is about people saying Christmas isn't a Christian festival because it is although there are other festivals at the same time or close to it. If your wedding anniversary was on the same day as my birthday would you celebrate your anniversary by inviting people to a birthday party for Mumps would you?

Just edited to say I think that sounds complicated and I hope it makes sense, I can't think how else to explain it.

your comparing apples with oranges. christmas is a mix of religious and (mainly) non-religious celebrations now. a minority celebrate the religious and the majority the non-religious elements. the word has evolved. christmas isnt a religious time anymore. while some religious people moan about that, if they had their way, christmas would be nearly extinct with more people choosing the non-religious aspects. christians have no right to moan about 'christmas' being appropriated by the non-religious because its exactly what christians did to the pagans.

my problem is that people like that poster have no problem demanding that christmas be celebrated their way on their day, but dont acknowledge that the only reason it is on that day is because christians made it that way so they could convert the pagans (who they hadnt massacred already). ignoring the true history of their 'special time' is disgusting.

mumps

dirtysexymonkey wrote: »

your comparing apples with oranges. christmas is a mix of religious and (mainly) non-religious celebrations now. a minority celebrate the religious and the majority the non-religious elements. the word has evolved. christmas isnt a religious time anymore. while some religious people moan about that, if they had their way, christmas would be nearly extinct with more people choosing the non-religious aspects. christians have no right to moan about 'christmas' being appropriated by the non-religious because its exactly what christians did to the pagans.

my problem is that people like that poster have no problem demanding that christmas be celebrated their way on their day, but dont acknowledge that the only reason it is on that day is because christians made it that way so they could convert the pagans (who they hadnt massacred already). ignoring the true history of their 'special time' is disgusting.

But Christians celebrated Christmas as a Christian festival, they used some of the old religions aspects but they made it theirs. I still don't understand why non Christians want to call their celebration Christmas? If you want to celebrate Yule or solstice why would you not use the name of that festival.

When my children were young I took them to a soltice festival, we looked at what it meant before we went, when we went to a Hanukkah party we did the same so that we would know what it meant and what was appropriate. If someone of another faith, my Jewish friend?, came to my home at Christmas they would respect what Christmas is and means, doesn't mean they have to believe it.

I know lots of people hate the American "Happy holiday" as they feel it should be "Happy Christmas" but I prefer to have a season of festivals in winter with them all being recognised and respected for what they are. I don't recognise the over eating, drinking, and consumer orgy as anything to do with the Christian festival of Christmas, I'm not sure what faith system they are.

Perhaps we just have to accept Christmas with a capital C or christmas with a small c, maybe that is as clear as it can be.

Just wanted to add when I was at school in the 50's the nuns who taught us made sure we knew the story of Christmas but we were also taught about why it was on the 25th December and why. Aren't children taught that now?

milliebear00001

mumps wrote: »

But Christians celebrated Christmas as a Christian festival, they used some of the old religions aspects but they made it theirs. I still don't understand why non Christians want to call their celebration Christmas? If you want to celebrate Yule or solstice why would you not use the name of that festival.

When my children were young I took them to a soltice festival, we looked at what it meant before we went, when we went to a Hanukkah party we did the same so that we would know what it meant and what was appropriate. If someone of another faith, my Jewish friend?, came to my home at Christmas they would respect what Christmas is and means, doesn't mean they have to believe it.

I know lots of people hate the American "Happy holiday" as they feel it should be "Happy Christmas" but I prefer to have a season of festivals in winter with them all being recognised and respected for what they are. I don't recognise the over eating, drinking, and consumer orgy as anything to do with the Christian festival of Christmas, I'm not sure what faith system they are.

You focus on the negative stereotype of the modern commercial Christmas, but that ignores the fact that most poeple value the family, friendship and thinking of others aspects far above the bits you mention - as evidenced by the posts here. The whole point is that neither they, nor the feasting and celebrating bits, are particular to faith celebrations at all. People aren't celebrating the solstice, nor are they Pagans; they are celebrating family time, friendship, goodwill, peace, rest and all the other 'good bits' that are associated with the Christmas festival.

Perhaps we just have to accept Christmas with a capital C or christmas with a small c, maybe that is as clear as it can be.

Of course we do - because that's exactly the situation we have now. You aren't going to persuade people to call it something else, and why does it matter what they call it anyway?!

Just wanted to add when I was at school in the 50's the nuns who taught us made sure we knew the story of Christmas but we were also taught about why it was on the 25th December and why. Aren't children taught that now?

Of course they are - but as one opinion among many, rather than as fact.

.............................................................................................

mumps

milliebear00001 wrote: »

.............................................................................................

I mentioned being taught the origins or 25th December being chosen for Christmas as dirtysexymonkey referred to Christians denying the origin or 25th December as a day to celebrate. My teachers (nuns) were certainly Christians who acknowledged this so I wondered if this had changed.

Re people celebrating the bits of Christmas re being with family etc I understand that, it was people talking about "their" celebrations being taken by Christians I don't get as they could still say they are celebrating whatever festival they like. I have no objections to people celebrating other people's festivals, in the dark of winter I think the more celebrations the better.