Which way around should it be?

stargazer59

barbiedoll wrote: »

I'll apologise in advance if I offend anyone but some of you "modern" parents do make me laugh!

Are you really going to deny your child the chance to be in the school Christmas play? I can remember when my son came home from school aged 4, excited beyond belief because he was going to wear a swan costume (goodness knows why!) and he had to sing a song, along with all of the kids in his class. Are you going to deny yourself the teary-eyed experience of watching your kid on the stage all dressed up and waving to you, missing his steps and forgetting his lines? Are you honestly not going to waver when he stops outside Santa's Grotto in the local shopping centre, just so that you can justify your non-belief?

If you're anything like most parents, most of your good intentions will go out of the window sooner or later. I always told myself that I would never be one of those parents who breaks their neck for the latest "must-have" toy. Yet a few years later, I found myself sitting at the computer at 4.30am, bidding on ebay for a second-hand Spiderman toy from America, which to this day, 8 years later, remains my son's pride and joy. We are all atheists in my family, including my son, now that he is old enough to make an informed choice. But Christmas for us, is a time for family, for giving and receiving gifts and cards and for looking forward to the new year. My Muslim friends celebrate it, my Sikh brother-in-law and his family celebrated it, the religion for most of us, is irrelevant, sad though that may seem to some people.

As for never telling a lie...really?
Are you going to tell your child that their home-made Mother's day card is really a bit of a mess?.....No
Are you going to tell your child that their first attempts at baking cakes actually taste and look quite horrid?.....No
Are you never going to let your child believe that toys do come to life when they are asleep?....No (not if you have a heart anyway)
Are you always going to be totally honest when your teenager asks you if they look ok with their strange hairdo and their weird clothes?...No.

You've got all this and more to come...just you wait and see!

If i could thank you a hundred times for this post i would!

I am reading this thread and wondering if it is a generational thing.

It is so sad to see people want to turn their children into mini grown ups, instead of allowing them to experience the magic of childhood, the make believe, the invisible friends, Father Christmas, all the things that children experience.

For me christmas is a time for family, getting together, a magical time for children. I can clearly remember the look of wonder on my childrens faces on Christmas day, luckily i have a grand daughter now and i can enjoy that innocent joy for a few more years!

I feel very sad for people who do not allow any magic in their lives

Marisco

barbiedoll wrote: »

As for never telling a lie...really?
Are you going to tell your child that their home-made Mother's day card is really a bit of a mess?.....No
Are you going to tell your child that their first attempts at baking cakes actually taste and look quite horrid?.....No
Are you never going to let your child believe that toys do come to life when they are asleep?....No (not if you have a heart anyway)
Are you always going to be totally honest when your teenager asks you if they look ok with their strange hairdo and their weird clothes?...No.

You've got all this and more to come...just you wait and see!

Got it in one!!! The child will also grow up without any "diplomatic" skills!! "does my bum look big in this"? "yes, you look bloody awful":D As barbie said, would you really tell a child his/her homemade card is rubbish? Everyone lies at some time or other, even if it's something as innocuous as telling a mate their new hairdo is nice, when it looks like a lawnmower has gone over it!! Try not lying for a day and see what happens! And if your not in hospital, come back and tell us about it!!:D

Lunar_Eclipse

Hub wrote: »

Everyone.

I can understand your point of view and know that some/most people lie at some point in time, hence I know I am not deluded (which by the way is somewhat offensive.)

However, in stating the above, you now lose all credibility, in my opinion, because you cannot possibly know that. I also think it's sad that you have such low opinions or expectations of people in general. I know several people who have never lied. Not once. I'm not quite so saintly ;-)

Lunar_Eclipse

barbiedoll wrote: »

As for never telling a lie...really?
Are you going to tell your child that their home-made Mother's day card is really a bit of a mess?.....No
Are you going to tell your child that their first attempts at baking cakes actually taste and look quite horrid?.....No
Are you never going to let your child believe that toys do come to life when they are asleep?....No (not if you have a heart anyway)
Are you always going to be totally honest when your teenager asks you if they look ok with their strange hairdo and their weird clothes?...No.

You've got all this and more to come...just you wait and see!

Yes, really. All those scenarios can easily be handled without lying. We're not discussing whether you'd voluntarily tell your children the whole truth (that's the worst cake I've ever tried in my life) but whether you'd actually lie about it. Huge difference. You can be honest whilst being polite and respectful. You can also avoid scarring someone for life without lying.

I'm sure this gets trickier with age, but I have already managed questions such as 'have you taken drugs' and 'does sex feel nice' without lying.

euronorris

mildred1978 wrote: »

It's probably more of a "winter festival" than Christmas without the religion, but people seem to get very offended by that suggestion.

I don't understand AT ALL how "Christmas doesn't have to be religious". How can it not be?

In the same way a wedding doesn't have to be.

You just remove the religious aspect from your celebrations, and simply celebrate being together instead. Spreading good will, drinking mulled wine etc.

TBH, these days it's easier to have a non-religious Christmas, than a religious one because the commercialisation of Christmas is everywhere.

And just because there is a commercial aspect to it, doesn't mean you have to buy into all that and buy loads of stuff either.

Just do what you want and are comfortable with, that's all.

jellyhead

mildred1978 wrote: »

You make it sound like showing my child the wonders of the world rather than the contents of the Argos catalogue is some form of abuse. :rotfl:

Good point. A lot of people go totally over the top at christmas. It's not necessary. When mine was 3 he wanted a yoyo, and if he'd had nothing but a yoyo he would have been happy. In the christmas episode of peppa pig she was hoping for a yoyo, and all of her friends were also hoping for just one gift. That's how it was when I was a child - I hoped for one thing and sometimes I got it (usually second hand, which didn't matter at all). The rest was clothes, fruit, nuts etc. and grandparents usually knitted a jumper or bought socks or matey bubble bath.

If you do choose to celebrate christmas in a small way you could do it without involving Santa. He doesn't come to families who don't believe in him anyway. A gift from you, possibly a tree?

margaretclare

mildred1978 wrote: »

It's probably more of a "winter festival" than Christmas without the religion, but people seem to get very offended by that suggestion.

I don't understand AT ALL how "Christmas doesn't have to be religious". How can it not be?

It means that you are not celebrating the story of the birth of Christ, the shepherds' visit, the star, the wise men etc. 'Christmas' as a religious festival hasn't got much to do with 'Santa'.

There's been a lot said about 'elderly people', what they can and can't do. OK, I suppose I come into that category now. When I was a child what we had was 'Father Christmas'. Gradually the American idea of 'Santa' has supervened, probably as a result of Hollywood, Bing Crosby, Judy Garland, white Christmas etc.

DH and I are practising Christians but we don't celebrate much of the modern idea of Christmas, the must-have, the advertising for weeks and weeks ahead so that by the time it arrives we are totally sick to death of it, being told what we must do/buy/eat. We do celebrate it but in a very simple way. A couple of years ago we were in Coventry Cathedral for the Christmas Eve service and that was wonderful.

As regards sending a card to a one-year-old, no, I wouldn't. How can a one-year-old read a card?

Whether Christmas can be religious or not - depends on your religion, or not. I have some friends who are Woden's Folk, that means they've gone back to the old gods of this country before Christianity arrived. I know they'll be celebrating, but they'll be calling it Yule. Really that's where all the idea of the evergreen trees, the log fire, the warmth and the good meal originated. It was a time of year when our ancestors couldn't do much in the fields, they only had natural daylight to work in anyway, and they gathered round the fire, ate well, told stories and sang songs.

My DH was brought up Jewish and they apparently did the parts of Christmas that many people do now, that was without buying into the story of Christ's birth but having the tree, the presents etc. It seems to me that that is the kind of 'Christmas' that many people celebrate. In fact, many people seem to just 'go with the flow', the hype, the advertising, without really knowing what it's meant to be about.

balletshoes

I think its pretty obvious from this thread that what Christmas "is about" is different for everyone .

CH27

barbiedoll wrote: »

I'll apologise in advance if I offend anyone but some of you "modern" parents do make me laugh!

Are you really going to deny your child the chance to be in the school Christmas play? I can remember when my son came home from school aged 4, excited beyond belief because he was going to wear a swan costume (goodness knows why!) and he had to sing a song, along with all of the kids in his class. Are you going to deny yourself the teary-eyed experience of watching your kid on the stage all dressed up and waving to you, missing his steps and forgetting his lines? Are you honestly not going to waver when he stops outside Santa's Grotto in the local shopping centre, just so that you can justify your non-belief?

If you're anything like most parents, most of your good intentions will go out of the window sooner or later. I always told myself that I would never be one of those parents who breaks their neck for the latest "must-have" toy. Yet a few years later, I found myself sitting at the computer at 4.30am, bidding on ebay for a second-hand Spiderman toy from America, which to this day, 8 years later, remains my son's pride and joy. We are all atheists in my family, including my son, now that he is old enough to make an informed choice. But Christmas for us, is a time for family, for giving and receiving gifts and cards and for looking forward to the new year. My Muslim friends celebrate it, my Sikh brother-in-law and his family celebrated it, the religion for most of us, is irrelevant, sad though that may seem to some people.

As for never telling a lie...really?
Are you going to tell your child that their home-made Mother's day card is really a bit of a mess?.....No
Are you going to tell your child that their first attempts at baking cakes actually taste and look quite horrid?.....No
Are you never going to let your child believe that toys do come to life when they are asleep?....No (not if you have a heart anyway)
Are you always going to be totally honest when your teenager asks you if they look ok with their strange hairdo and their weird clothes?...No.

You've got all this and more to come...just you wait and see!

Great post:T

dirtysexymonkey

mildred1978 wrote: »

Thank you. There may be an element of that going on. However, they manage perfectly well to send cards to their other great grandchildren, have them visit, take them out etc. it's just OH's mum's grandchildren they don't seem to be bothered with.

maybe they dont want to spend any time with you? i cant be doing with people who put their 'principles' before the happiness of their children so maybe they cant either? you dont strike me as someone who will ever soften towards a view you havent got yourself. even if your views make your childrens lives incredibly lonely and difficult (worst case) i doubt youd have the courage to turn your back on your 'principles'. thats sad.