kids lost all respect.

Money_maker

freda wrote: »

But it appears to me that no one has actually said that surely this sort of behaviour indicates that the two boys have a really deep seated anger, frustration, hatred etc of their lives

#25 it has been indicated.

Kay_Peel

I think Weston put his finger on it.

They do it because they can.

Dad doesn't need to bond with these blighters, he needs to grow some round and bouncy ones. If he doesn't do that soon then God help him when they get to 15.

The destructive bhaviour has to stop and it has to stop now. There have to be consequences if they don't stop. You can look for the so-called reasons (I bet there aren't any) later.

DatabaseError

freda wrote: »

If I were in your situation, I'd be pulling out all the plugs and visiting my GP, CAMHS etc to get them some counselling asap

...... Can you enrol them on at least two hobbies that will take up their time - cadets and karate spring to my mind as physically challenging but regimented.

..

It sounds so sad, and they are still only so young at 13. Turn their lives around for them, they deserve it.

cahms involved again (today has been my first day home, and busy) GP was seen, ruled out adhd/add etc.
Both boys thrown out of both cubs and the local youth club

Plan is to turn this around, which is why I'm asking for advice, happy sons make happy parents. (though maybe the other way round would help as well)

Looking for a 2nd hand (cheap) trailer tent right now on ebay, camping without sleeping on the floor. Hopefully I'll have one bought by tomorrow.

edit pretty sure drink or drugs are not involved, though both boys occasionally smoke (we don't)

RAS

You do not need a trailer tent if you have just lost your job.

Borrow - yes borrow - some camping mats or buy them for 5.99 in argos.

Borrow a tent and a burner and some rusksacs if you do not already have them.

split_second

when my fiance won a competition we bought a 3 man tent in tesco for £15, i would say if there are 3 of you then get roughly a 4 or 5 berth. we had sleeping bags and nothing else, used our bags as pillows (not advisable).

i am going to be brutally honest, if your wife is being an idiot then thats her problem, right now you and your lads both need some headspace and bonding

victory

DatabaseError wrote: »

cahms involved again (today has been my first day home, and busy) GP was seen, ruled out adhd/add etc.
Both boys thrown out of both cubs and the local youth club

Plan is to turn this around, which is why I'm asking for advice, happy sons make happy parents. (though maybe the other way round would help as well)

Looking for a 2nd hand (cheap) trailer tent right now on ebay, camping without sleeping on the floor. Hopefully I'll have one bought by tomorrow.

edit pretty sure drink or drugs are not involved, though both boys occasionally smoke (we don't)

Has their mum been in touch whilst on holiday? Do they know when she is coming back? Do they know that you are leaving after she gets back?
They would have picked up on something maybe and maybe just feel that they never really have you both under the same roof at the same time, you are away at work or your wife is away...

DatabaseError

victory wrote: »

Has their mum been in touch whilst on holiday? Do they know when she is coming back? Do they know that you are leaving after she gets back?
They would have picked up on something maybe and maybe just feel that they never really have you both under the same roof at the same time, you are away at work or your wife is away...

she's not been in touch with them, that I'm aware of.
as to me leaving when she gets back, that's not a decision that's been made yet, wife and i need to do a lot of talking,
boys do know there are big problems

the_cat

So boys know that there are deep issues and their behaviour has worsened presumably alongside the deterioration of your relationship with your wife.......... surely you must see that there is a connection?

Errata

boys have been difficult since birth, i think in an effort to have some peace we've let them get away with too much

No bad dogs, only bad owners. You are now reaping what you sowed and I have not one ounce of sympathy for you but shedloads for the two kids.
Get yourself to a parenting class and find out what you should be doing and how to do it, although I suspect it may be way too late.

flybynight

just because they have been thrown out of cubs and youth club doesnt mean they cant join the cadets. im an army cadet instructor and we get quite a few lads at my place that are having issues with school / at home. we dont treat them any different to little johnny turning up with his halo. everyon gets the rules laid down, and what is and isnt acceptabel and gets the chance to be part of the det. not that everybody wants to stay, but some decide they do, and being thrown out of somewhere before makes no difference to their chances. I wouldnt count on it fixing them at home though, we have had a few who turn up and try to be little s*ds with us and we dont accept it and they cahnge, but continue to be s*ds at home.