kids lost all respect.

DatabaseError

Long story, so I'll start short and elaborate as required.

I have 2 13 year old boys (non identical twins) neither of which respect my wife or I (mainly myself).
I've spent 6 months every year working away from home, which probably hasn't helped. They have both been kicked out of schools (one of them has been to 7 schools so far) for violence and disrespect towards pupils and adults (including assaulting staff). Losing access to phones or computers doesn't seem to bother them too much, grounding them leads to them climbing out of 2nd floor windows or running away.
Dr ruled out adhd a couple of years ago, they are both bright, neither "failing" at school, we eat a reasonable diet with loads of fresh foods and almost no processed stuff.
Right now one might be at school (he refused to come home yesterday, shouting abuse down the phone at me when i called) and the other is in bed, refusing to get up. I know what my dad would have done, but I've (perhaps foolishly) avoided bringing my kids up to fear their parents.
We did involve services, can't remember the name of the group (wasn't calms), we had some support for a few months but that ended xmas last year, since then (which was pretty good) things have once again degraded.

CH27

What measures did the support services put in place? Did you continue with them?

DatabaseError

someone popped around once a week or 2 for a chat, occasionally took the boys out to play pool etc..., not much else. around xmas the person we were dealing with changed jobs, was decided we didn't need more help.

kafkathecat

I haven't been in your position so this may not be helpful but I would talk to them and keep talking and listening. Find out what they want out of life, what they are angry about, how you can help them. My ds is 13 so I know it isn't always easy as they can be quite irrational with all the hormones swirling around but it has worked for us so far.

CH27

Do they play up all the time?
Do their routines change drastically when you return home?

DatabaseError

they do play up much of the time. as to routine changing, of course, I'm home every day rather than one weekend in 2. probably doesn't help that my wife and i are going through a rough patch, though she isn't home right now (went on holiday alone)

edit - should add, i came home yesterday!

victory

Do you think more that they resent you being away rather than lacking respect?

That they are not expressing it very well but they missed you and wanted you to be at home?

Were they teased at school about it? Did they spend all their time trying to defend their family dynamics?

Was your wife strict with them whilst you were away?

Was she able to cope or did she 'yell at them' and with you being away they have lost the respect for what a family should be, should feel like?

Suffolk_Jock

I would look at asking for a CAF (common assessment framework) to be done, it will get all the professional and voluntary sectors together. I have put a link on for more information for you.

Also please be aware that when you start puting change into place behaviour can get worse before it gets better as they will try and break the boundaries etc to get back the status quo

http://www.cwdcouncil.org.uk/caf

DatabaseError

resent me being away? not sure, they always say they're ok about it
could miss me, but as you suggest showing it badly
teased at school? i don't think so, they certainly never suggested it.
wife strict, again i doubt it, boys have been difficult since birth, i think in an effort to have some peace we've let them get away with too much, now the parent/child relationships are broken.
i think she barely coped/copes, this is a long term problem that I've just had enough of, marriage under a lot of strain (in a large part due to dealing with the problems the boys bring to us, police, schools etc..) in a few days my wife returns from her holiday and i might take the opportunity to walk away (already suggested it to her before she booked her holiday), though whether that would really be from her or just the stress of the boys I'm not 100% sure.

victory

Sometimes resentment although not properly shown can result in anger problems, difficulty in communicating, being rebellious rather than getting to the core of the problem, boys are not going to sit down with their dad and say 'dad you being away bothers me a lot because...' are they really?

Communication has broken down all in the family, you and your wife, you and your kids, your kids and your wife so someone has to interveen, counsellors, family mediation that type of thing.

You all have the negative view, you can't see any positive in your boys, they can't see you as a great dad, your wife can't see the point of being there and on it goes, it needs the professionals to bring some positivity into it.

whitewing

Is the one who was in bed still at home now?

If so, I would just take him out with you. Take him for a long walk, and a burger or fish and chips and talk to him - not about his behaviour but let him get a sense of you, who you are, what you do at work. Ask him how his mum is. Keep things light. It is much harder to be disrespectful to people you like, although 13 year olds can manage that!

Connexions may also be able to help.

Perhaps they feel that they have messed up so much of their schooling that there isn't much point. Being bright is not quite the same as having the knowledge that they should have with uninterrupted schooling. If the money is available perhaps you could have a private tutor to sit with one or both of them once a week. That could happen whether or not they go to school. As long as one or both is present, I wouldn't even worry too much if they are grumpy about it (may need to warn the tutor. The tutor should be honest about whether it is worth persevering).

Maybe your wife finds it hard to handle on her own, so she dumps it all into your lap when you're home. The boys need to spend good time with you both and I guess that is not what they are getting. (Bear in mind teenagers are usually worse at home). If they can start having positive relationships with two or three people then that will start to alter their behaviour, but you and your wife need to be part of making that happen. You two should guide the support you receive, not be so reliant on the support that it all falls apart when the support stops.