Want to leave OH can't bear living like this anymore

JodyBPM

The thing is that with a family income of only £37000, a mortgage of £175000 (could easily cost £1k-£1.5K pm depending on what rate they are on), all household expenses to pay, and 3 children to feed and clothe, its quite likely that neither of them have much money. It may well not be a case of him keeping her short, more that as a family unit they are short of money, and there simply isn't money there for him to give her. It sounds like he is more prudent with money than she is (ie savings etc compared to her debts) and is possibly keeping control of the majority of the money for the right reasons - to stop it getting frittered away. If we were short of money, I'd be pretty reluctant to give what little we had to someone who has £16K of credit card debts. I'd also get really frustrated if I was having to count the pennies to keep the roof over the families heads and was constantly having to bail someone else, who wasn't so sensible with money, out. After a while I think I would stop doing it, in the hope that she learnt that she HAS to stick to her budget, he's not got an endless supply of money to keep bailing her out with.

Regarding him not letting her work - well, if he earns £37K pa, if makes NO financial sense for him to give up shifts for her to work, unless she can match those earnings. Obviously I don't know her background, but I don't know of many part time positions that pay £37kpa to people whose only recent work experience is running a failing ebay business (and I would consider only earning £800 profit per year for many hours a week of work failing, sorry).

The inheritance was from 10+ years before she was with her OH. He made an arrangement with his mother which he is honouring, and he made it before his partner and children were on the scene. I don't think the OP has any right whatsover to be complaining about this. It was his money, he made his choice to let his mum have use of the money, and he wishes to continue that arrangement. His money, his mum, none of OPs business IMO. I might feel a bit differently had the inheritance come whilst they were together, that they should have discussed it together etc, but this an arrangement made 10 years before they even met. Leave it alone - it has nothing to do with you!

Obviously, there a major issues in this relationship. But it doesn't read to me like emotional/financial abuse. It reads to me like two different people with very different attitudes towards money, and a complete inability to communicate. I do think that the OP seems to take for granted all the things her OH does do for her (paying mortgage, bills, DIY, paying to make the garden nice etc).

In all honesty, they both need to sit down and put their financial cards on the table, communicate and sort out a way forward together. But the OP doesn't even seem to want to try.

too_much_debt

Idiophreak wrote: »

What, you mean apart from paying the mortgage, the council tax, your utility bills, house insurance etc etc etc? It may not be cash in your pocket, but he's certainly paying a good chunk of your living expenses...



Getting back what you've paid out = complete waste of time. Does it make you feel "busy" or "worthwhile"? I can only imagine that's the reason you keep doing it. I say you could manage just as well, because you're *not* getting by on your ebay earnings at the moment, far from it - you're racking up credit card debt hand over fist. That being the case, what difference would an extra £800 debt / year really make?

I don't understand how your OH thinks you're surviving if he knows the figures...If he's the kind that looks for investments (however hairbrained) for his money, he's probably the kind that realises what little sense it makes to have saving *and* credit card debt.



Profit's all that's important...Any other figures are just noise. So last year you made £800 in 9 months. That would work out at 1066pa - £20.50 per week, assuming you earn at the same rate this year. This year, however, you've lost your Top Rated Seller status and your sales have dropped off - so the profit may be even less?

I think answering some straightforward here will make us all much clearer on the state of play here:
1) How much time do you spend on ebay each week? All in, buying, selling, wrapping, answering emails, going to the post office etc.

2) Does your OH know how little this "business" is earning you?

3) Does he support you running the ebay business, or is he against it?

4) What would he do if you stopped? How would he expect you to pay for anything then?

5) Does your OH know about your debt?
If so, how does he feel about it?

6) What happens to the Child Benefit and Child Tax Credits? Do you get them, or does the OH? Are they spent directly on the children?

He would be paying the mortgage, council tax etc anyway even if we weren't here. He has added £12k onto our mortgage which is the debt from his credit cards that he lent his mother.

It doesn't matter if I am working twice has hard for little money I have to sell on Ebay to make money no matter how much or how little it is as he won't give me any money for anything and looks at me funny if I even ask him to pay for something for his own kids. I can do Ebay at home while I have my kids, I am here for them if they are ill or if they have to be sent home from school, he doesn't want anyone else looking after his children. If I stop doing Ebay I don't have any other income and cannot get a job with his hours, I said once before that I would be happy to stack shelves in Sainsburys or Tesco at nighttime just to get out of the house, earn a bit of money and have some adults to talk to but he said no he didn't want me to do that.

I lost my Top Rated Seller status for 3 months and should hopefully get it back this month due to hard work, getting parcels out ASAP, that is why I go to the Post Office every day, I want the stuff out as quickly as possible.

1. I do Ebay when the kids are at school or when OH is here in the mornings when he is on the late shift, I do all my parcels then and post them so that I have it done before 1.20pm when he goes to work, then I have 2 hours before I have to pick the kids up from school, I also have DD here. I also do Ebay when the kids go to bed so it depends really how much time I can spend.

2. Yes of course he knows how little it is earning me but he doesn't care as long as I am getting some money in and not asking him he is OK.

3. Of course he supports me doing as it means he doesn't have to give me any money and I pay for things for the kids, he doesn't particularly like the stock that has to be kept in the house.

4. I don't know what he would do if I stopped probably panic, I shall ask him later what he would do if I said I wasn't going to do it anymore.

5. Yes he knows about the debt, he has about £10k of his own credit card debt.

6. I get the Child Tax Credits (about 34.60 a month) and also Child Benefit (183 a month), I spend more on the kids than on anything else incuding myself so yes it goes on them, DD3 is still in nappies (trying to toilet train now) which I always buy.

It isn't all about the money, it's about his attitude to things too, I don't know why everyone is just focusing on the money.

He has never done anything for me, when I had bad gall stone pain and thought I was having heart problems I had to drive myself to A&E (this was before I knew what I had wrong).

When I had my first child I rang him up at 9am when I was induced to ask him if he was coming in he said no he would be in at 6pm (visiting time) so I hung up on him, when I went into labour 2 hours later they asked me if I wanted to ring him and I said no so they called him, he never had any concern over me, just sat in the chair next to me chatting away to the midwife, didn't rub my back or try and make me comfortable or do anything to help me as I didn't cope with the pain very well.

When DD1 was 1 year old and I was 24 weeks pregnant with DD2, we went away for a long weekend to a hotel, I was paying for the room, so his brother and sil were staying there and he didn't come back to the room one night for about 2 hours and came back and said he'd had a few drinks with them, he had added all the drinks they had onto my bill so I had to pay for it all, now how many men would do that to their wife/girlfriend when she is not working has a baby and one on the way, I was so angry and upset that when we got back home the next night I was washing the babies bottles and switched the plug on with wet hands and got an electric shock, I went in to tell him and he didn't even get up, I had to ring for an ambulance myself.

He went to the chip shop two weeks ago, didn't say he was going just disappeared, came back with large chips, 3 sausages for the kids, fish for himself and when I asked him what he had got me he said a roll.

One time he wanted to buy a big music keyboard, I had to pay half for it.

A few months ago he said he was going swimming after work, he came back at the normal time he would have come back, I caught him out a few days later he had a receipt for the pub at the time he said he was swimming, he never said when he came back that it was too cold and he hadn't gone, he only told me that when I caught him out.

He's told me his life doens't revolve around me (when I was annoyed he was late back one day and couldn't go to the Post Office), surely if he wasn't going to be back in time he could have called to tell me.

He told me I was nothing without him.

DD1 was crying outside and DD2 came in and said she was crying, he went outside and DD1 told him DD2 and done something so he slapped DD2 really hard on the arm and left a big red mark on her arm that didn't go down til the next day.

I am certainly not staying with a man I don't love just because he pays the mortgage and bills.

too_much_debt

JodyBPM wrote: »

The thing is that with a family income of only £37000, a mortgage of £175000 (could easily cost £1k-£1.5K pm depending on what rate they are on), all household expenses to pay, and 3 children to feed and clothe, its quite likely that neither of them have much money. It may well not be a case of him keeping her short, more that as a family unit they are short of money, and there simply isn't money there for him to give her. It sounds like he is more prudent with money than she is (ie savings etc compared to her debts) and is possibly keeping control of the majority of the money for the right reasons - to stop it getting frittered away. If we were short of money, I'd be pretty reluctant to give what little we had to someone who has £16K of credit card debts. I'd also get really frustrated if I was having to count the pennies to keep the roof over the families heads and was constantly having to bail someone else, who wasn't so sensible with money, out. After a while I think I would stop doing it, in the hope that she learnt that she HAS to stick to her budget, he's not got an endless supply of money to keep bailing her out with.

Regarding him not letting her work - well, if he earns £37K pa, if makes NO financial sense for him to give up shifts for her to work, unless she can match those earnings. Obviously I don't know her background, but I don't know of many part time positions that pay £37kpa to people whose only recent work experience is running a failing ebay business (and I would consider only earning £800 profit per year for many hours a week of work failing, sorry).

The inheritance was from 10+ years before she was with her OH. He made an arrangement with his mother which he is honouring, and he made it before his partner and children were on the scene. I don't think the OP has any right whatsover to be complaining about this. It was his money, he made his choice to let his mum have use of the money, and he wishes to continue that arrangement. His money, his mum, none of OPs business IMO. I might feel a bit differently had the inheritance come whilst they were together, that they should have discussed it together etc, but this an arrangement made 10 years before they even met. Leave it alone - it has nothing to do with you!

Obviously, there a major issues in this relationship. But it doesn't read to me like emotional/financial abuse. It reads to me like two different people with very different attitudes towards money, and a complete inability to communicate. I do think that the OP seems to take for granted all the things her OH does do for her (paying mortgage, bills, DIY, paying to make the garden nice etc).

In all honesty, they both need to sit down and put their financial cards on the table, communicate and sort out a way forward together. But the OP doesn't even seem to want to try.

You are right I wouldn't earn enough so that is why he doesn't want me to go out to work and is happy for me to do Ebay as it gives me some money and saves him having to give me any and I do pay for most things yet on the odd occasion I don't have enough so have to ask him.

He has over £2k in the bank, so surely if I don't have enough money to pay for something ie £72 for Playgroup fees then why is it so bad for me to ask him to pay for it, I said I would pay him it back, £72 from £2k still leaves him a lot of money, he doesn't mind paying £50+ on the lottery every month.

The inheritance didn't come from before I met him, the house was with a Trustee for 20 years, he was awarded £50k in 2008 and she was meant to pay him in 2009, the thing that annoys me is that she never said she didn't want to sell as she needed the money from the rooms, she never said sorry I can't pay you but as soon as the market picks up or I get some money I'll give it to you, it's like she's conveniently forgot she owes 4 of them £50k, she never mentions the credit card debt either and that annoys me more than the £50k, he said that he would never fall into that trap again of lending her money, before I met him he lent her money on one of his cards and she was meant to make the payments every month (he'd give her the statement) and she was missing payments and ruined his credit rating. When I first met him and he bought his own property (after she told him that if they were evicted and the house was sold, when he said about moving into the other house she told him no, her and his two brothers could but he couldn't which is why he found his own place) he wanted furniture for his house and I did the credit agreement on it for him as he had a bad credit rating due to his mum.

She sat here in my house when my mum was here and when my mum said that she thought his mum was selling the house she said that when she asked the 4 of them they all said they didn't want her to sell, so I went upstairs and called OH at work and asked him and he said no he hadn't said that. He does want his money and so does his other elder brother but she won't put the house up for sale she rents the rooms out instead. She told his brother that she was going to do the top part of one house up so she could sell it and would he lend her £5k so he lent her the money thinking she was doing it up to sell it and then when he went on holiday she rented the rooms out so had no intention of selling at all.

I got together with OH in October 2000, so I've been involved in this for 10 years, I've been to Court to support his mum. So much for the legal agreement he signed for his money, she told me once that she had missed a few mortgage payments so I'm just waiting for the houses to be repossessed.

RacyRed

The mortgage and other monthly bills are hardly the full picture are they? Ok, so she will get child benefit, is that really enough on its own to cover all of the day to day expenses for 3 children and 2 adults?

Ok, forget the cards, presents, ebay and look at the fundamental question.

What kind of a man insists on having a stay a home mum for his kids then doesn't ensure she has enough money to feed or clothe them?

He has disposable income but choses not to make absolutely sure his kids are properly provided for.

He laughs at the OP's efforts on Ebay but doesn't ask her why she feels she has to work so hard for so little return? While making it impossible for her to get a job that might give her a better income?

His financial contribution to the family appears to begin and end with paying the same bills he would pay if he was a single man without a family (mortgage, utilities etc). He doesn't contribute towards his food, his partner appears to have to find the money for that too.

He does not involve himself in the day to day care of his children and views his partner as a housekeeper.

He appears to laugh/brush off the OP's attempts to get him to discuss finances. OP, were your financial arrangements set up before you had kids and have they stayed the same since?

There is a one word description for a guy like this, it begins with B and ends with t and this guy is a complete one.

OP, use your weekend wisely. Get all the paperwork together and organised. Check the availability of part time jobs and child care together with any help you might be entitled to. Make sure you get that appointment with CAB. Sort as much of the kids' stuff out as possible.

Then walk.

Oh and Idiophreak, I think you will find that the ebaying is done out of desperation. Personally, I imagine that is why she keeps doing it.

JodyBPM

too_much_debt wrote: »

He has over £2k in the bank, so surely if I don't have enough money to pay for something ie £72 for Playgroup fees then why is it so bad for me to ask him to pay for it, I said I would pay him it back, £72 from £2k still leaves him a lot of money, he doesn't mind paying £50+ on the lottery every month.

I imagine he didn't give it to you, because you are meant to budget for it out of the £200 every 4 weeks you get in benefits (plus your ebay earnngs). Perhaps he feels you should budget your money properly, and he is tired of bailing you out. Net savings of £2k is diddly squat, and if he gives you £70 here, £70 there, he will very soon have nothing. Perhaps he thinks a family of 5 should have saving behind them - I think the general recommended amount is 6 months net salary, which he is WELL short of.

The inheritance didn't come from before I met him, his father died without a will, his mother and father were legally separated but not divorced, they had 7 children, the mother put the house with a Public Trustee they had an agreement that as long as the 8 of them agreed to keep the house then it wouldn't be sold, after 7 or 8 years of this it came out that someone wasn't in agreement so it went to court still no one knew who was not in agreement, this is after I met OH, it came out in Court that his elder sister was the one not in agreement and she wanted her money, then his younger brother decided that he wanted his money too, he had been living with the mother with his two kids, his mum paid for everything for him and his kids school fees yet he turned against her. Eventually in 2008 the judge told his mum that she could have the house back into her control as long as she sold one of the properties to pay her remaining 4 kids who had stuck by her their money, an agreement was drawn up by the public trustee and sent to them saying that she must pay them their £50k in 2009, they left the date blank and she told them to put 31st December 2009 to give her time to raise the money which she didn't do, when December came she never said to anyone that she was unable to pay them she never mentioned it.

She sat here in my house when my mum was here and when my mum said that she thought his mum was selling the house she said that when she asked the 4 of them they all said they didn't want her to sell, so I went upstairs and called OH at work and asked him and he said no he hadn't said that. He does want his money and so does his other elder brother but she won't put the house up for sale she rents the rooms out instead. She told his brother that she was going to do the top part of one house up so she could sell it and would he lend her £5k so he lent her the money thinking she was doing it up to sell it and then when he went on holiday she rented the rooms out so had no intention of selling at all.

I got together with OH in October 2000, so I've been involved in this for 10 years, I've been to Court to support his mum. So much for the legal agreement he signed for his money, she told me once that she had missed a few mortgage payments so I'm just waiting for the houses to be repossessed.

Never the less, it is HIS money, not YOURS, and he can do with it what HE sees fit. It seems to me that if his mother is close to getting repo'd and also lets out the rooms for income, then she is not as well off as you would like to think. Plenty of people are asset rich, but income poor, and this sound the case with your MIL. It seems that he is happy for her to have the money for the time being, which is HIS decision, so I think you need to drop it now. It is NOT YOUR MONEY, it is HIS, and is nothing to do with you - you aren't entitled to it.

If he does all the things that you said in a previous post (sorry don't know how to multi quote), then why are you still with him? If he is mean to you, hits the children etc, then leave. Why are you still hanging around? - the cynical part of me thinks you what to stick it out until you can get your mitts on HIS inheritance, but I'm sure that's not the case...

Simply put, if you are not happy, then leave. But I don't think he is financially abusing you, sorry. I DO think you need to learn to budget though ( I spend about what you get every 4 weeks per YEAR on clothes, shoes for my children!, and they are hardly walking around in rags!, plus about what you get every 4 weeks per YEAR for presents, and they don't exactly go without!)

You sound very irresponsible with money, I have a very prudent approach to money, possibly much like your DH, and I wouldn't be bailing you out either, sorry!

Any

This story has 2 sides (and OP brought up the finances, so don't know why there is a surprise many are commenting) - £37400 income does not bring you in so much net.
We have mortgage of £115000 and all household our bills total £1230 (just bills, no food etc). Their could be more, there is only 2 of us in our house. There are no mobile bills in it either. JUST house bills. And lower mortgage.
He brings home roughly £1700 (possibly less, depends on his tax code etc). Plus travel to work etc.
They do not have between them that much of disposable income.
OP seems to be thinking that he does not pay anything towards her and children's upkeep at all.
If someone thinks that bills for a single man and for 4 member family are the same then they have no idea about real life out there.
His lack of contribution towards food is a massive problem though.

HOWEVER, the lack of the OH's care for the children or OPs feelings is alarming. This man is selfish, there is no question about that. And I could not live with such a selfish man.
OP, you know what you want to do, you have obviously made your mind up so just get up and go.

too_much_debt

JodyBPM wrote: »

Never the less, it is HIS money, not YOURS, and he can do with it what HE sees fit. It seems to me that if his mother is close to getting repo'd and also lets out the rooms for income, then she is not as well off as you would like to think. Plenty of people are asset rich, but income poor, and this sound the case with your MIL. It seems that he is happy for her to have the money for the time being, which is HIS decision, so I think you need to drop it now. It is NOT YOUR MONEY, it is HIS, and is nothing to do with you - you aren't entitled to it.

If he does all the things that you said in a previous post (sorry don't know how to multi quote), then why are you still with him? If he is mean to you, hits the children etc, then leave. Why are you still hanging around? - the cynical part of me thinks you what to stick it out until you can get your mitts on HIS inheritance, but I'm sure that's not the case...

Simply put, if you are not happy, then leave. But I don't think he is financially abusing you, sorry. I DO think you need to learn to budget though ( I spend about what you get every 4 weeks per YEAR on clothes, shoes for my children!, and they are hardly walking around in rags!, plus about what you get every 4 weeks per YEAR for presents, and they don't exactly go without!)

You sound very irresponsible with money, I have a very prudent approach to money, possibly much like your DH, and I wouldn't be bailing you out either, sorry!

I never said I wanted him to spend his inheritance on me, he told me that when he got his money he would stop working weekends, the weekends used to be a big problem for me when I had 3 children under 4 years old. He is not happy to let his mum keep the money, he wants his money but knows that she will not do anything to give it to him.

Excuse me but £50k doesn't go nowhere so why would I want to get my hands on it. I had £50k profit when I sold my house to move in with OH and I had to use those funds when I was pregnant with DD1 for clothes and baby equipment and stuff and that £50k didn't last long, the last £15k I had went on the deposit for this house.

How am I irresponsible with money when everything I buy is for my kids, I don't buy CD's DVD's books, magazines, clothes for myself, I certainly don't go out.

too_much_debt

Any wrote: »

This story has 2 sides (and OP brought up the finances, so don't know why there is a surprise many are commenting) - £37400 income does not bring you in so much net.
We have mortgage of £115000 and all household our bills total £1230 (just bills, no food etc). Their could be more, there is only 2 of us in our house. There are no mobile bills in it either. JUST house bills. And lower mortgage.
He brings home roughly £1700 (possibly less, depends on his tax code etc). Plus travel to work etc.
They do not have between them that much of disposable income.
OP seems to be thinking that he does not pay anything towards her and children's upkeep at all.
If someone thinks that bills for a single man and for 4 member family are the same then they have no idea about real life out there.
His lack of contribution towards food is a massive problem though.

HOWEVER, the lack of the OH's care for the children or OPs feelings is alarming. This man is selfish, there is no question about that. And I could not live with such a selfish man.
OP, you know what you want to do, you have obviously made your mind up so just get up and go.

Yes I bought up the finances because even though I pay for most things for my children there are times when something is due to be paid Playgroup fees (this was the last lot) or something comes up when I don't have enough or don't have the money and I need to ask him if he can 'lend' it to me, my parents find it strange that I should have to ask to borrow money from the father of my own children.

too_much_debt

To Idiophreak

I just spoke to him and asked him what would he think if I gave up doing Ebay and his reply was 'well that would be stupid', when I asked him if he thought I was wasting my time doing Ebay his reply was 'it's all helping', when I asked him about going and getting a job he asked me 'what would you do and when would you do it'.

JodyBPM

too_much_debt wrote: »

Excuse me but £50k doesn't go nowhere so why would I want to get my hands on it. I had £50k profit when I sold my house to move in with OH and I had to use those funds when I was pregnant with DD1 for clothes and baby equipment and stuff and that £50k didn't last long, the last £15k I had went on the deposit for this house.

Really not convincing me that you are anything other than very irresponsible with money here! Making me understand even more clearly why your DH doesn't want to keep bailing you out!

Never the less, if he is all the things that you have said in previous posts (mean to you, uninterested in the children, hitting the children etc) then I think they are good reasons to leave him. I'm just confused as to why these weren't the primary reasons given in the OP rather than you going on about money!