Bitter sister in law

ceridwen

Just_Plain_Jane wrote: »

Or is it that you are at risk of exposing yourself as a hypocrite if you answer it?

You've just answered your own question with the aggressive way you phrased this (ie "lets just try and find another little dig that can be made at ceridwen") - ie because one never knows what sort of person is reading anything put out onto the Net and sometimes they are people one would probably really prefer not to encounter ITRW:)

ceridwen

coolcait wrote: »

Not giving out personal information on the internet is a very good policy, and excellent advice.

Take the OP's situation, for example. It's not exactly your common or garden dilemma. Anyone who knows her or her OP's family could probably identify her from the info in her first post.

I couldn't figure out how a new poster, with such a complex problem, would have found 'moneysavingexpert.com' as the first choice of forum to discuss her situation. Especially in the absence of any moneysaving issues.

However, maybe it seemed more anonymous than the more obvious fora such as netmums. Less likely that she would be identified.

Bottom line. No one should feel that they need to give out personal information on line - ever. Even if they are subjected to the kind of pressure that you've just used.

Also, even if you are the most garrulous, sharing, open person in the world - especially if you are the most garrulous, sharing, open person in the world - please reign in the info you give out about yourself online.

It's astonishing how quickly it can build up into a very clear picture of who you are, and where you live.

Especially if your circumstances (as so often seems to be the case on here) are extremely unusual.

But even if you are joe/josephine average, you'd probably be quite shocked if you considered how much identifying personal info you are giving out without realising it.

On that note, it's back to school tomorrow, so I'm off to be a proper mum and iron the uniform(s) - without being age or quantity specific.

There have been a lot of interesting points raised, and I hope I get a chance to consider them and respond. I'm not sure if I'll be able to do my night-owl thing tonight. Maybe tomorrow.

But, the whole 'protect your identity on the internet' issue is a personal bugbear, and I've said it before on MSE.

So sorry, Just Plain Jane, I have a huge objection to the idea that people should be forced into giving out personal information in the way that you have tried to do it - even if it was unwitting.

And, before you try the whole 'you're Ceridwen!' angle, ask yourself if anything I have said about internet security would suddenly become untrue if I were Ceridwen, and every other poster on this thread except you. (After all, unless you're posting on here under AEs, you can only be sure that there are two people posting at any time - you, and any other user-name that appears )

IMO (and only IMO) people who give out huge levels of identifying personal detail are either naive about the way the internet works, or they are telling a story which bears no resemblance to any real life.


P.S. For the record - I don't use any other log-in name to post on here.

:T:T:T:T:T:T Very well put and my sentiments precisely.

I have been surprised at the amount of detail some people have given out. There was certainly a poster who positively alarmed me for her safety - an Asian girl whose parents wanted her to be in an arranged marriage and she was busily planning otherwise. I heard alarm bells ringing loudly - went back through her previous posts and those alarm bells were positively deafening. It was very very clear who she was to anyone who knew her.

I DO hope she is safe - and at least I did the best I could in that respect, as I sent her a P.M. pointing out how readily identifiable she was and please (for your own safety) remove posts. She obviously saw my point - as she did so promptly. So - fingers crossed that I saw them in time to protect her (I had a huge icy feeling in the pit of my stomach about this)....

EDIT: So - to that Asian girl - if you read this - just send me a PM to tell me you're safe.

sassyblue

Alittlesad wrote: »

I'm looking for some advice please.:o

My husband and I delightedly announced at Christmas that I am pregnant with our third child.:j
Unfortunately my husband's sister has been unbelievable in her response.
She is a single (never married) woman in her fifties who has never had children and claims to find anyone with more than 2 children to be irresponsible.
She always said that she would have a problem with us having another child and has said now that she is very disappointed in us and won't be buying presents for this child as it is just adding to the overpopulation of this country.
I do feel a bit sad for her though as she does come across as very bitter that she is alone.
I have always found her odd to be honest but I am really shocked at this and don't know how to react.

Any help would be welcome.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

When l stopped laughing my advice is to ignore her daft ideas and if she keeps on then just be as sarcastic in your replies.

I'd also tell her not to bother buying presents for ANY of your children if she's going to leave this one out, what matters is that EVERY child is bought up in a happy loving home, she should turn her attention to the !!!!less who churn kids out and haven't got the money or time for them.

Frugalista

marmitepotato wrote: »

It would be lovely if you came back after the baby is born and tell us what you had, and what you have called your baby. I am sure we will all want to know, wont we?

Why?? :huh:

KiKi

ceridwen wrote: »

Because it is entirely my business alone who I chose to marry/live with - it does not affect anyone else in any material way. It would upset a few relatives' emotions. But emotions ARE only emotions and would have been upset because they chose to be upset - not because I had done anything upsetting per se IYSWIM.

Adding an extra person to the worlds population affects us all in a material way.

That is where I see the difference lying.

It's an interesting perspective - and I genuinely mean that! Because I think you can also take another 'affecting others or not view'. Which is mine, and which is this:

That is it entirely SIL's business alone what she chooses to believe. Her beliefs do not affect anyone else in a material way. It does upset a few of her relatives, for sure. But her beliefs are hers.

Choosing to cut off a child who has done nothing wrong does affect another person and that child's whole family.

And that's where I see the difference lying.

KiKi

MrsE_2

coolcait wrote: »

Not giving out personal information on the internet is a very good policy, and excellent advice.

Take the OP's situation, for example. It's not exactly your common or garden dilemma. Anyone who knows her or her OP's family could probably identify her from the info in her first post.

I couldn't figure out how a new poster, with such a complex problem, would have found 'moneysavingexpert.com' as the first choice of forum to discuss her situation. Especially in the absence of any moneysaving issues.

However, maybe it seemed more anonymous than the more obvious fora such as netmums. Less likely that she would be identified.

Bottom line. No one should feel that they need to give out personal information on line - ever. Even if they are subjected to the kind of pressure that you've just used.

Also, even if you are the most garrulous, sharing, open person in the world - especially if you are the most garrulous, sharing, open person in the world - please reign in the info you give out about yourself online.

It's astonishing how quickly it can build up into a very clear picture of who you are, and where you live.

Especially if your circumstances (as so often seems to be the case on here) are extremely unusual.

But even if you are joe/josephine average, you'd probably be quite shocked if you considered how much identifying personal info you are giving out without realising it.

On that note, it's back to school tomorrow, so I'm off to be a proper mum and iron the uniform(s) - without being age or quantity specific.

There have been a lot of interesting points raised, and I hope I get a chance to consider them and respond. I'm not sure if I'll be able to do my night-owl thing tonight. Maybe tomorrow.

But, the whole 'protect your identity on the internet' issue is a personal bugbear, and I've said it before on MSE.

So sorry, Just Plain Jane, I have a huge objection to the idea that people should be forced into giving out personal information in the way that you have tried to do it - even if it was unwitting.

And, before you try the whole 'you're Ceridwen!' angle, ask yourself if anything I have said about internet security would suddenly become untrue if I were Ceridwen, and every other poster on this thread except you. (After all, unless you're posting on here under AEs, you can only be sure that there are two people posting at any time - you, and any other user-name that appears )

IMO (and only IMO) people who give out huge levels of identifying personal detail are either naive about the way the internet works, or they are telling a story which bears no resemblance to any real life.


P.S. For the record - I don't use any other log-in name to post on here.

Best advice I've ever seen on MSE:T:T:T:T:T

warehouse

What Sister in law?

Margaret52129

Contratulations on your 3rd pregnancy - and your new name should not be 'alittlesad' just because of your SIL!

I've not read all the posts as there is way to many to wade through, so have just peeked in now and then at some of them, and it's so sad that such lovely news is creating such a furore amongst you all.

My family background is that I have 2 children, my sis has 4, one of my BILs have 3 and the other none (by choice). I'm one of 2, my OH is one of 3, and my BIL (my sis' OH) is one of 7, my SIL who has 3 is one of 5 and my SIL who has none is one of 2 so we have varying views on children and no-one in the family ever remarked unkindly about the 3rd or more child in any of the extended families. They are all loved by everyone.

My DD has 2 and although it was a surprise as the first wasn't planned, they decided they wanted another fairly quickly as they didn't want a gap between them. We were a little shocked, but not one of the family ever gave them any view other than they were pleased for them. If they thought otherwise they kept their opinions to themselves - which is what the OP's SIL should have done.

To have this baby was your choice, and no matter how she heard the news, nor if it was something she did not agree with, she should not have said what she said. If I was you, I would try your best to ignore her comments, and if possible have the minimum of contact with her - you need to enjoy this pregnancy and if you get upset over it, you will miss out on what should be happy time for you all.

When the baby arrives, should your SIL still hold those views and gives only your elder 2 gifts, then return them unopened (before the childen see them!) and ask that she no longer buys for any of your childen.

Hope your pregnancy goes well, and you finally delivery a beautiful healthy child.

euronorris

ceridwen wrote: »

To which I respond - who was it that proposed this toast and why did they do it in the circumstances?

Why shouldn't they toast the impending arrival of the newest addition to their family?

If the OP's SIL was dead set against marriage, should everyone else never mention their happy news around her? Or celebrate it?

euronorris

coolcait wrote: »

But why are the OP's feelings more worthy of protection than the SIL's?

Why are the SIL's opinions more worthy of protection than the OP's? And the rest of the family.

You commented earlier about starting a thread to examine the motives of the person who raised the toast. Why would that be necessary? I would assume the reason the toast was raised was to celebrate the impending arrival of a new member of the family. It seems quite a natural thing to do.

How should the family have dealt with the situation? Raise a toast when she's out of the room? Doesn't that then exclude her entirely? Or have no toast/celebration/acknowledgement at all which would still be upsetting for the rest of the family?

I think the best thing you can ever do in such situations, is to go for the option which would create the least amount of upset. Unfortunately, someone is always going to be upset/hurt and this time it was the SIL. Not great for her, but surely a quiet sip of her drink would've been a better response to the situation?

This is what I can't get my head around. The OP told us the SIL's views very clearly - right down to the fact that the SIL had considered how she would feel if the the OP and her husband has a third child.

The OP - rightly - did her family planning with her husband, based on what they wanted and what they could afford. Not on what the SIL believes.

There appears to be an extended family which is delighted about the new baby. Plenty of people to raise a glass in celebration and congratulations, without needing the SIL there to make up numbers.

I simply do not understand why - in a family which knows about the SIL's views, and has often described her among themeselves as 'bitter', and is well aware that she is 'outspoken' at best, but more often described as 'rude' - her own father would put her, his son, his pregnant daughter-in-law and the rest of the family in this situation.

He could have made the toast when she wasn't present. Avoiding the awkward situation.

Maybe the event wasn't planned? Maybe the OP and her hubby only found out the day before and so told the grandparents as soon as they saw them?

Making the toast when she wasn't there: Wouldn't that be excluding her and also be considered rude?

I also wonder what would have happened if the SIL had politely raised her glass and murmured "I'm happy for you", or another tactful comment? How long would it be before the family were making comments about her being two-faced, because everyone knows how she really feels about third babies? Or that she's obviously a hypocrite? Doesn't feel that strongly about over-population does she? etc

I can't say for sure (obviously), but I doubt that any of those things would have even been thought, let alone said. Most likely they would've thought that it was very nice and considerate of her to say such a thing when she has such strong opinions on the subject.

I also think that she was put in an impossible postion - and I'm shocked to read that it was her own father who did that to her!

I don't think that it would be right for her to differentiate between the two children you already have, and the one that's on the way. However, there's plenty of time to see whether or not that's actually what she does. It may simply have been a bad reaction to being put in an awkward situation.

Maybe if we can find a better solution to the issue, the OP will have a better understanding of how to deal with it in future, and may even be able to mend some bridges with the SIL.

It might help for those who feel strongly about it also, to have a way of dealing with the issue if it happens to them.