Maybe promoted from a PPC to a CEO?

ppc_guy

esmerobbo wrote: »

"Failure to pay for services rendered is an offence which can eb taken to court"

Failure to pay for contractually agreed services is a breach of contract. It can be enforced by a court if the court finds the contract is accepted by both parties and is not unfairly loaded.

However it is not an offence, an offence is a breach of a law.

Ok I wont argue.
I do however have faith that if the need arose to take a person to court our contract would be seen as fair and just. The signage is of adequate size and colour as to be seen
The important information is in MASSIVE LETTERS and our address and landline phone numbers are clearly printed at the bottom of every sign and ticket we issue.

esmerobbo

ppc_guy wrote: »

Ok I wont argue.
I do however have faith that if the need arose to take a person to court our contract would be seen as fair and just. The signage is of adequate size and colour as to be seen
The important information is in MASSIVE LETTERS and our address and landline phone numbers are clearly printed at the bottom of every sign and ticket we issue.

I don't wish to argue also, and I appreciate you taking time to answer these questions. I don't wish to keep raising technical issues, but that is the problem many have with the PPC industry, they quote terms and make statements that are totally without substance.

Its not your role to answer for their use of these statements. We don't know what your charge notice says so we cant ask about that specifically.

anewman

ppc_guy wrote: »

Failure to pay for services rendered is an offence which can eb taken to court. in this case the Service is parking. The Parking Charge notice is an invoice for that service.

In court you could only get away with stating this if a charge was charged for that car park. And then again actual losses would be in terms of the parking charge in force at the time of the contractual breach. Yes it may be acceptable to add an administration charge of some form on top representative of the amount of work required to enforce the charge, but to request £75 is clearly unreasonable if parking is £4.50 for 4 hours and someone overstays by 20 minutes. Actual losses for a free car park are zero.

ppc_guy wrote: »

The important information is in MASSIVE LETTERS and our address and landline phone numbers are clearly printed at the bottom of every sign and ticket we issue.

I've seen some terribly bad signs that use MASSIVE LETTERS and are quite difficult to read. All CAPS and centred text is quite difficult to read especially if there's lots of information there - and this is the type of signs many PPC's put up.

If only all signs could be as concise and clear as the one in this thread I have already linked to https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2910340 It states the name of the company, that parking is for customers only, states clamping is used, and how much it costs to unclamp. No unnecessary pointless waffling to make the sign unclear and difficult to read.

Here's some examples of signs I think are particularly bad




Who's going to spend 10 minutes of their life reading all the lengthy tiny text on those signs?

AlexisV

Failure to pay for services rendered is an offence which can eb taken to court. in this case the Service is parking. The Parking Charge notice is an invoice for that service.

Two issues - offence of not paying. Yes, you can be prosecuted for not paying a pound to park. Unlikely, but possible.

Second issue - a Parking Charge Notice usually isn't an invoice for a service. 99% of the time it is an invoice for alleged breach of contract no?

Of course, we come back to the usual PPC defence of "the driver agreed to pay £xx by parking for x amount of time." Except contract law does not work in the manner of "No parking beyond 2 hours. Parking over 2 hours will result in a charge of £60", otherwise a contract stating "No blue cars. Any blue car drivers agree to pay a parking charge of £100,000." would be valid.

Contractual penalties and genuine pre-estimate of loss do not exist in such contracts, which is why 'PCNs' for a pound an hour (actual loss) or contracts that put forward bonefide contractual offers are rarer than hens' teeth.

Before i answer this question can you show me any point where any of what i have said shows me to break any law contract or otherwise?

You have tried to demonstrate that the charge is a charge for parking, and a demonstration of loss incurred by you. Which is it?

Whilst Bt do not directly offer an appeals process they have an itemised bill which is linked directly to your telehpone .. However if you notice an item on that bill which you do not feel is correct do you just leave it or do you appeal? The difference between PPC's and BT is we clearly give the right of appeal.

If it's wrong I tell them and don't pay it! I certainly wouldn't be appealing to anybody. We all know the word 'appeal' is to draw parallels with council tickets.

Who the hell do you think you are by apparently graciously presiding over 'appeals'? You're the ones appealing to the public to pay you and keep your ordinary private company afloat!

ppc_guy

AlexisV wrote: »

Two issues - offence of not paying. Yes, you can be prosecuted for not paying a pound to park. Unlikely, but possible.

Second issue - a Parking Charge Notice usually isn't an invoice for a service. 99% of the time it is an invoice for alleged breach of contract no?

Of course, we come back to the usual PPC defence of "the driver agreed to pay £xx by parking for x amount of time." Except contract law does not work in the manner of "No parking beyond 2 hours. Parking over 2 hours will result in a charge of £60", otherwise a contract stating "No blue cars. Any blue car drivers agree to pay a parking charge of £100,000." would be valid.

Contractual penalties and genuine pre-estimate of loss do not exist in such contracts, which is why 'PCNs' for a pound an hour (actual loss) or contracts that put forward bonefide contractual offers are rarer than hens' teeth.




You have tried to demonstrate that the charge is a charge for parking, and a demonstration of loss incurred by you. Which is it?




If it's wrong I tell them and don't pay it! I certainly wouldn't be appealing to anybody. We all know the word 'appeal' is to draw parallels with council tickets.

Who the hell do you think you are by apparently graciously presiding over 'appeals'? You're the ones appealing to the public to pay you and keep your ordinary private company afloat!

All my answers have been concise factual and to the point i have ay no point made any judgement about any memebr on this forum and as you have asked me WHO THE HELL i choose not to answer your post. If however you manage to rephrase ina polite manner i will do

ppc_guy

anewman wrote: »

In court you could only get away with stating this if a charge was charged for that car park. And then again actual losses would be in terms of the parking charge in force at the time of the contractual breach. Yes it may be acceptable to add an administration charge of some form on top representative of the amount of work required to enforce the charge, but to request £75 is clearly unreasonable if parking is £4.50 for 4 hours and someone overstays by 20 minutes. Actual losses for a free car park are zero.

The admin fee is a price defined by me for the processes required in administrating the system and the tickets.
The top sign isnt as bad as the top one. Our local council has about 73 clauses on a massive board now that is excessive.

Driver8

PRIVATE PARKING TICKETS - DON'T PAY!
IT IS NOT A FINE! YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING ILLEGAL!

This is an information page for the thousands of people who receive "tickets" from private companies in the UK ever day at supermarkets, retail parks, and in any other privately-owned carpark.

We are NOT encouraging anybody to openly flout parking restrictions on private land, or to refuse to pay reasonable charges for parking. Landowners have a right to make reasonable charges for the use of their land.

For advice specific to your case, you should visit the forums at http://forums.pepipoo.com or http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.php?f=163

1. What you should know about these companies

It is important to remember that private parking companies (or PPCs as they are often called) have NO OFFICIAL POWERS - that's right, none at all! They give out their "tickets" on the basis that you have seen the signs in their car park and that you have therefore agreed to a contract obliging you to pay a certain sum of money.


2. What happens to people who don't pay?

In 99.9% of cases, absolutely NOTHING! The company pays the DVLA £2.50 to get your address, and then sends lots of threatening letters. In the main, these letters can be safely IGNORED. The only way the company can actually force you to pay is by taking you to the small claims court, which costs them even more money. And they are by no means guaranteed to win! And they practically never do.

The two main reasons for this (among others) are the following:

- Only the person DRIVING the car could ever have agreed to any such parking contract. The company can only get the Registered Keeper's address from the DVLA: you don't have to tell them who was driving.

-Many of these charges are so extortionately high that they constitute a penalty, which is unenforceable in a consumer contract.


3. Can they affect my credit rating?

NO! The only way your credit rating could be affected by ignoring private parking companies is if you were taken to court, lost, and then still refused to pay. But they will not take you to court.


IN SHORT

The vast majority of the time, you can safely IGNORE tickets from private parking companies, they are not official fines.

The vast majority of the time, you can safely IGNORE the threatening letters, including those from debt collection agencies.

You DO NOT have to pay a penny of your hard-earned money to these companies. Remember that the chances of being taken to court are very slim indeed.

DO NOT IGNORE COURT PAPERS!
If you receive real court papers from a private parking company (very rare) then you should go to http://forums.pepipoo.com or http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences for help defending the claim. Do not be afraid to sign up and ask questions regarding any paperwork you are not sure about.



Don’t believe the above? Watch a solicitor on Watchdog advising you what to do with the scam invoices.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAIcdi9niHA

THEY ARE NOT FINES

Only the Police, Courts or Council’s can fine you. NOT a private company, please remember that.

ppc_guy

I am not trying to justify anything i don't need to you are nobody to me so i am not overly bothered.
I am trying to show that we do not all operate in the same way.
Personal attacks on me are not justified or called for so please refrain in the future.

esmerobbo

Lets play nice now folks.:) We may not like the man's industry but at least he has had the balls to come and answer questions.;)

27col

I don't think it's the spelling that is particularly bad, but the typing is atrocious. He appears to have pride in his company and its methods, but absolutely none in his typing. But at least he had the guts to stand up for what he is doing for a living.
There is definitely something needing to be done about commuters who park all day, but I am not sure what it could be. I think that these people have a damn cheek expecting someone to subsidise their commuting costs.