Forward Cellular Have Gone Bust

Smartasss

andy88 you're just arguing for no reason.

My point is accurate - their outgoings are reduced by 50%

The inclusive minutes "lost" don't come into it!

If anyone needs more minutes they can reduce their forward lossses if voda will let them downgrade, then take out a new contract elsewhere (still plenty of good "free/cashback" deals around).

The original tariff you speak of was intended to be free! For those caught by forward reneging on the deal, any way of saving is a bonus!

Reestit_Mutton

Smartasss wrote:

The reply from Harrisons merely confirms the situation:

Any tariff change allowed by the network may have an impact between forward and the network, but will not impact on the creditor (who will definitely gain the benefit of any reduction in tariff)

It seems that the 50 pence in the pound is the best creditors can hope for (ie 50% of what they are owed).

Presumably voda will be prepared to offer downgrades to other customers.

If a customer takes up the voda downgrade offer they reduce their outgoings by a definite 50%.

Also it seems that there is a chance that the network won't pay Forward what was expected, thus the final payout could well be less than the projected 50p in the £.

A bird in the hand!

I have one comment to add to this...

While you may guarantee a 50% reduction in your exposure (assuming you do not intend to go beyond the number of free minutes offered on your new tariff) you will be doing this at the expense of other customers who aren't aware that they could do this.

If everyone on MSE follows Samartasss' advice they could end up stuffing non-MSE customers completely as there may well be no money left to pay out to the remaining creditors if Vodafone clawback Forward Cellular for all the MSE downgrades that have occurred.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that the purpose of this site was to screw the companies right back...not screw other individuals.

If everyone was simply a little more considered in their actions for once everyone could get around 50p in the pound and only once they've all received their cashback they could then ask to downgrade their tariff (when there will be no further consequence to the small guy). In this manner they may well recover more than 50% of their liabilities AND succeed in screwing Vodafone as there will no longer be any company or funds for Vodafone to clawback from.

Remember, the liabilities are 85K - that equates to a maximum of 500 outstanding contract cashbacks (in reality, probably a lot less as some of the creditors may well be suppliers) - I wonder what percentage of these are MSE users?

Just a thought...and one that I suspect will be completely ignored by the frenzy of MSE conducting their own little land grab.

RM
(donning his flame-proof jacket in readiness for a flak attack)

andy88_2

Smartasss wrote:

andy88 you're just arguing for no reason.

My point is accurate - their outgoings are reduced by 50%

The inclusive minutes "lost" don't come into it!

Let's look at a hypothetical Vodafone 200 minutes for £30 a month. I would have guessed the cashback at £300; you seem to be saying the full amount was refundable, but maybe this is only for higher value tariffs, but to simplify the maths I'll go with it.

The letter that has just been quoted implies about 50% funds available. Stepping the tariff down also cuts by 50%. So the 2 options may not be so far apart in cost, depending on some other questions -
1. do these creditors, the customers, have equal ranking with the other creditors on the list?
2. what view will the administrators take on the cashback available for those customers who cut the tariff straight away? Will it be pro rata? - possibly not as the commission scale may not be. Will they pay nothing at all, or only a proportion based on approx 2-3 months connection time on the higher tariff?

If the answer to 1 is that someone else has priority on say £30,000, then the customers will get about 25%. If there is no priority, they can hope for 50%. Let's call this proportion P.

The answer to 2 will be harder to quantify, and needs more feedback from the administrators. But it's possible that Mr X who has been on Voda 200 for exactly 2 months and just went to the £15 option will receive approx P*[£30*2 + £15*10] which could be £55 to 105, on P = 25 to 50%. It may also be only P*£30*2 which is £15 to £30. It could zero.

So, overall, if there are no funds at all for cashback from the administrators, then Smartasss is absolutely correct. Take 50% and get a new deal elsewhere.

If the payout is 50%, but the early downgraders are disqualified from any cashback at all, then staying on the original tariff until the end of the contract will be at zero cost. Don't forget that the tariff can be downrated at 6 months anyway, and this is the time to look for a new deal.

The most likely outturn is somewhere in-between; maybe it will be 40%, and the early downgraders will get something like 20%, but I'll assume 40%. In which case, the sums could be -
1. stay on tariff: Rent = 6*£30 + 6*£15 = £270.
Cashback = 40% *£360 = £144. Cost = £126
2. cut tariff: Rent = 2*£30 + 10*£15 = £210.
Cashback = 40%*£210 = £84. Cost = £126
Apologies, this was a complete coincidence. I hope it's possible to see that the extra 170 minutes a month for 4 months may be almost as likely to cause a saving as have a cost, depending on the payout rates involved.

The person who downgrades tariff at 2 months instead of 6 months will certainly save £60 on line rental, and have 680 minutes less to use. But if there is any cashback at all still available this £60 cost must be putatively reduced. If it turned out to be £20, would you buy 680 minutes at 3p a minute? If it turned out to save £20, would you buy 680 minutes for minus 3 pence a minute?

So, sorry for getting pedantic, or sounding argumentative; I just think that Smartasss' position is over-simplistic, and in view of the respect he/she normally merits, risks badly advising people.

Edit - looking at it again, if the settlement is at 50%, it is actually impossible for the early downgrader to be better off; futhermore they are at risk of a lower proportion than 50%. Put 50% in above, the 2nd case is £15 worse off. So, apologies alric and others for not detailing this sooner. I cautioned against this, but felt that I was interfering in something that was not my business, so I've only just been provoked into looking more closely.

andy88_2

Reestit_Mutton wrote:

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RM
(donning his flame-proof jacket in readiness for a flak attack)

Please could you point me to the MSE thread where I can examine special offers on these?

justpaper

Reestit_Mutton wrote:

.

RM
(donning his flame-proof jacket in readiness for a flak attack)

andy88 wrote:

Please could you point me to the MSE thread where I can examine special offers on these?

im sure forward cellular and mobile republic know where to get some cheap :rolleyes:

alric

I'd tend to look at it from a different point of view....
If you had little money, 200 free minutes/month for next to nothing is a good opportunity.
£30 a month on mobile calls is very different. Something you'd avoid like the plague.
So now someon(forward cellular) has defaulted, are you supposed to come up with an extra £30/month from thin air?
Or are these deals only for people that have that much to throw away every month?

LongDongDave

Reestit_Mutton wrote:

..... I wonder what percentage of these are MSE users?

That's the problem here. You're asking MSE members to be goody-two-shoes, while there are many Forward Cellular contract holders who have never heard of MSE and are already reducing the pot by downgrading. Better to get a reduction in the tariff now, and reduce your exposure, than depend on the generosity of the liquidators.

andy88_2

Actually, if you add up the number of FC customers on here and certain other places you can probably identify a significant number of them, especially if you count people doing 3 to 8 deals a month.

And as I suggested they could stuff themselves as well

LongDongDave

andy88 wrote:

[.......] especially if you count people doing 3 to 8 deals a month.

I don't understand your point. Who's doing "3 to 8 deals a month"?

andy88_2

andy88 wrote:

... and certain other places ...

I didn't say here