Deep breath -

moggylover

Rikki wrote: »

.........not acting like one though.

TBF - since she is being treated like her little sister then I don't think anyone is giving her any chance to behave like an adult;)

I'm not some "young and foolish" mum: I'm 52 years old and have seen a lot in that time! I had emminently sensible parents who acknowledged that at 14 they would have been starting work, that at 16 I could leave school and start work without their consent, and that at 18 I was an acknowledged adult. They allowed me to grow up - albeit that until my "O" levels were finished I had to do homework before going out and then be picked up by 10 pm.

If I had a boyfriend (or just friend) that they didn't like they would tell me how marvellous he was (endlessly) because that was the quickest way to get rid of him:D

Teenagers rebel! They have rebelled since time immemorial and the more you give them to rebel against the bigger (and potentially more damaging) the rebellion!

I can see the problem regarding the bedroom: I think you need to look at how this can be eased and NOT at making your DD behave as if she is her younger sisters age and I think you need to start letting go of those apron strings before you strangle her completely.

We all want what's best for our kids, but you have to trust what you have put in place in the past and let them have a little more rope each year past about 13 or you either distinctly damage their self-confidence, cripple their trust in their own ability to make decisions and risk pushing them away forever.

I'm strict myself: but I think you are being waaaaaaaaaay overboard:o Sorry:o

I'm afraid that parents who want trust and respect from a 17 year old also need to be giving it: young people that age are way beyond the age of giving it blindly:o

moggylover

trickytrolleys wrote: »

and also, the important thing, is that this one is - so surely those that also did it are better to offer advice to the parents as they are the ones who may just be able to give advice that could stop the whole thing descending into madness.

I can understand how frustrating it must feel for her parents as they only want the best for her but they may just find their way of dealing with things could make it worse rather than better.

You have to deal with the teenager you've got, not the one you wish they were.

VERY well said :T:T:T:T

euronorris

essexgirly wrote: »

I have total empathy with jo jo, I am in exactly the same position, this could have been me writing this. My daughter is 15 though and the bf is 23, I am at my wits end. I have no idea as to what to do. I'm battling with the governers to keep her in school at the moment. I've tried everything and have just come to the conclusion that I have to ride with this part of her life and support her as best I can. I do believe that by making things forbidden fruit they seem more appealling.

Jo jo you have done the best thing by removing her from your house, I wish I could do that and it breaks my heart to say that as she is still my little girl.

Good luck

x

He's 23....and she's only 15??

Have you tried reporting him?

libbyc3

JoJo, having been on the end of some of your constructve advice previously, I would guess (and I am aware it is a guess), that you are a strong minded, independent women who speaks her mind and doesn't take any c**p. speaking as the dd of woman of similar traits all I can say is once I hit teenage years I was desparate to emulate that but did not have the maturity to achieve it so went out of my way to prove how strong and independent I was by behaving in similar way to your dd is now. I thought by proving I know my own mind and doing what I wanted regardless of the consequences I was showing I was just as strong, etc, etc as my mum.
My mum however, couldnt understand why when she had brought me up to be independent and strong minded I was using it to be so self destructive.
It took many years end unbelievable patience from my mum before I realised how to use the lessons she had taught me in a positive way - sometimes I still get it wrong.
I am now going through similar with my 16 yr old dd ( how my mum laughs), and am trying to get through it just by being the best role model I can.
good luck and keep strong - she will come out the other side eventually

moggylover

I do think that the BF is the problem - and I don't think it is good for your DD to be with him. But I don't think the answers to this are going to be found in rules and regs and arguments between you.

I think it is perfectly acceptable that the BF does not go into the shared bedroom at all! I think this, because first and foremost it is YOUR home and you are allowed to make those sort of rules. I also agree that it is perfectly fair to say that you will not feed him: but I'm not sure that will not just push DD away more when she needs you to be staying close no matter how much it hurts. Regarding college and the rest you can only sit down and quietly talk to her about WHY you want her to do it but then let her make her own choices. I know that will be really tough, but there is no way on earth that you can force her and all you will do is allienate her.

We all hope it will never happen to us. Unfortunately, no matter how good a job we have done as parents and no matter how hard we have tried, for some people a child is going to have a difficult time at some stage in their life and our job then frequently becomes painfull. I suppose that is why parenting is a vocation not a job:o

I know you are hurt at the moment: but you are the adult (by your own contention) and thus you have to put your own hurt aside and try to make sure that the situation with your DD does not escalate into one where she just dissapears and you loose her altogether.

You have my heartfelt sympathy but apart from trying to talk to her without arguing and trying to get any counselling service that the college has involved I don't think there are any quick fix solutions at the moment and you have to choose whether you want to be there for her through this tough time (which might get a lot tougher tbh) or whether you want to keep trying to control her and risk loosing her altogether.

Hugs! It must be an awful place to be at the moment but kids do not come with a guarantee (or an instruction manual) and things do not always go as smoothly as we would hope.

Debtphobic_Dinah

Hi JoJo My heart goes out to you and I wish you well. You are doing the right thing by letting off steam here- you must have enough to froth all the coffees in England. I too have a difficult pair of teens and so many of us have to endure quite a bit of verbal and mental abuse from them.
With my 17yo son we have given up on college and he now is on a scheme called E2E. You get on it through your local Connexions and you study literacy, numeracy,IT and confidence building. It is a very basic course but it is very supportive and you get opportunities to go on work placements. EMA at 30 pounds per week is automatic and not based on parental income, plus bus fares are reimbursed. The courses are not tied to academic years and can be started and stopped at any time. Whilst on the course parents can still claim child benefit and the young person can still have a part-time job in the evening or weekend.
E2E can be started at any time and gives a great breathing space with laid back staff who are experienced in dealing with tricky teens,and can help them access other support too.
This of course is just an idea and I hope you take all the suggestions on this thread as brainstorming as there is no one correct way that fits all.

Debtphobic_Dinah

Hi JoJo My heart goes out to you and I wish you well. You are doing the right thing by letting off steam here- you must have enough to froth all the coffees in England. I too have a difficult pair of teens and so many of us have to endure quite a bit of verbal and mental abuse from them.
With my 17yo son we have given up on college and he now is on a scheme called E2E. You get on it through your local Connexions and you study literacy, numeracy,IT and confidence building. It is a very basic course but it is very supportive and you get opportunities to go on work placements. EMA at 30 pounds per week is automatic and not based on parental income, plus bus fares are reimbursed. The courses are not tied to academic years and can be started and stopped at any time. Whilst on the course parents can still claim child benefit and the young person can still have a part-time job in the evening or weekend.
E2E can be started at any time and gives a great breathing space with laid back staff who are experienced in dealing with tricky teens,and can help them access other support too.
This of course is just an idea and I hope you take all the suggestions on this thread as brainstorming as there is no one correct way that fits all.

daska

Well, at 17 I could often be found creeping back into the house seconds before my dad's alarm clock went off - quite often having spent the night with my BF at a club and then in a park. But I went on to get A levels and my final work incarnation was as an IT manager... So what's normal? Not me obviously LOL

You do run the risk of alienating her if you handle this badly, but who's to know how to handle it well? She sounds scared. The BF sounds like a bully. Their relationship sounds anything but healthy. And I'm going to come at this from my own experiences so please forgive me if what I go on to say is emotive.

You referred to your daughter being 'addicted' to the BF, well, yes it sounds as if she is. To her he is 'god' but from your posts it sounds as if the BF lies, is manipulative, deprives your DD of sleep, monitors her activities at every moment, controls her actions throughout the day (when she does things, who she sees, where she goes, what she eats etc), has alienated her from her friends and family, is parasitic/expects you and others to fund his lifestyle choices, lacks empathy, is potentially guilty of child sex abuse (exposing your 10 year old to sexual behaviour)... the list goes on

Then read this: Mind control works by gradually exerting increasing control over individuals through a variety techniques, such as excessive repetition of routine activities, intense humiliation, or sleep deprivation. and google cult leader characteristics to check the BF out in his many (larger scale) guises...

Now that we've put the BF's behaviour into perspective it might be easier to view DD less as a wayward teen and more as someone who is losing her identity and free will and needs to be supported rather than punished.

You have a wonderful ally in your ex. And that could make all the difference to how this works out. If she feels 'safe' there, albeit without the freedom she thought she could demand at yours, then she may start to calm down. Just getting a week where she has the opportunity of a decent sleep and time to herself may help enormously.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Thank you all for your suggestions. I hate sounding as though I am blocking any of them.

The reason I know she is telling her tutor the Bloke is violent is because the tutor hauled me in for a meeting before she contacted social services to 'get her the hell out of there'. We had a 30 min chat once she got over the initial shock that I wasn't a vest wearing, beer swilling, toothless illiterate. Her notes (why do they assume I can't read upside down?) had one phrase in capitals. Respectable lady. She said they would contact me if they needed any further input from me, but that it was obvious there wasn't the issue they had been led to believe was there.

The college have offered her ongoing half hour counselling sessions - DD1 says there was only one five minute one with a man who decided she wasn't suitable.

I have tried very hard to be pleasant to DD1's BF. Whilst I would have loved to just march in there and go 'Oi! You! Sling yer hook before I sling it for you!', I have never even said an unpleasant word to him. With the feeding him issue, I explained to DD1 that I couldn't afford to feed him the equivalent of three meals, knowing that he would also eat hers and then go home to eat another the same. One Sunday, we had one chicken breast between three, he consumed the rest of the chicken, 12 roast potatoes, all the veggies and still bought fried chicken on the way home. I can't and won't keep up with that every night. A 'quick sandwich' means 8 slices of bread and two thirds of a jar of peanut butter, followed by a litre of fruit juice. Once a week wouldn't have hurt, but every single day?

I never lose my temper. I did martial arts training for years. I know I could never lay a finger on anyone unless it was in self defence. Even though it crossed my mind, I was never going to tell her to leave because I refused to have her thinking I rejected her. I know how mental abuse works (been on the receiving end of it, as well as the other kind), so I have never said anything stronger than x was a really, really silly thing to do. I don't shout. I don't confront. I don't whine and wail or do guilt trips. If I was unhappy about something, I would say I wasn't happy about it because it had this effect or that effect.

She was on the gifted and talented register at her school, so E2E would probably be refused on the grounds that she doesn't need it. Again, she would also still have to turn up.
She didn't want to do day release at school to do an apprenticeship. Not beauty therapy, not animal care, not child care, not building, nothing.
She doesn't want to get a job, even a Saturday one.
She doesn't want to go to the college that she chose in the first place, but doesn't want to change to another one.
Her father says he wrote her the cheque for her provisional licence last year. She still hasn't got one though.
She was offered driving lessons as an alternative Christmas/Birthday present (by both ex and me, coincidentally). She didn't want them.
She has the passport form and I have told her that she has to apply because she's over 16. She's had the form since before Christmas.
She says she certainly doesn't want a baby. And screeched that I was judging her, making her out to be a sl_g just like everyone else for even thinking it. (I wondered after that outburst if she's recently had one 'sorted out' - but wouldn't dream of asking her that one, as it would definitely be only her decision to tell anyone if it were the case)

I have tried suggesting that she goes back to dance, because she used to love it and the college offers a course in it. She says they don't and she's not allowed to do it anyway because she's an AS student or they don't have any spaces or the person she needs to see is away. In other words, the class was due to start at the time that BF finishes on a Wednesday (when he turns up)

The music teacher (who was the one who called me to tell me she wasn't turning up in the first place - and neither was her boyfriend) has offered instrumental music lessons for her. She said she wouldn't do it because BF wanted to do them but had to pay. The lessons are free for everyone.

I have gently explained to her that I am worried that her future will be affected by not going to college, asking if there was something she would rather be doing, like an apprenticeship. I have also asked after her old friends, to be told that they all hate her because of going out with her BF. I have said that I am concerned because some abusive people start with little comments and messages, but work their way up to full blown control, and if she felt like this ever, she could come to me for help.

If I had been a mad control nut suffocating parent with draconian rules and regulations and punishments, etc, I would understand that I had brought all this on my head. If I had spent my days in a spliff induced daze, I would understand. If I had never been there because I was working stupid hours, I would understand. If she had any memory of me and her father splitting up other than that of always going to his on every second Wednesday and every other weekend with half the holidays - it was like that from 1 year old - I would understand.

I know it is normal for teenagers to want to cut loose. I'd be worried if a teenager wasn't at least thinking about how they would achieve leaving home. But surely most do it by going to Uni or getting a job?

I think that I am going to have to sit and wait, keeping my fingers crossed that she decides this isn't what she really wants after all, that she wants a proper future and to function as a whole person, not part of a symbiotic unit. And if she ever comes to me for help, she will get the love that is always there for her.

But it hurts. Which is all I wanted to say as it wouldn't be right to whine about it to her. And she wouldn't care anyway. But I needed to tell someone.

daska

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

If ...

No. Not 'if'. This isn't about you or her upbringing. This is about her. You can have the gentlest, kindest, most sensible and supportive family in the world and still be vulnerable to this kind of manipulation. Let her mellow for a bit and then offer her whatever support she wants.

And in the meantime you can vent on here!