A man's view of dealing with unemployment and depression

moggylover

Hi salesaddict, I read and thanked last night, but wanted to think things through before I posted because I am aware of your postings on another thread and wanted to get this across without sounding like I'm beating you up: which I am not, I just want to get the "other side" of this through.

Since I am in a similar position with regard to a long-term on/off relationship myself this is not me judging you: more me putting into words some of the things I am aware of from my own experience, and some of the things that become clearer to me from your own posts about my own situation.

Firstly, I think perhaps that "weaker" men are often drawn to "stronger" women but then find that their "manhood" is seriously challenged/damaged by that strength:o Within them there is probably still the pre-programmed need to be the hunter and look after their family themselves, when they are outstripped in this by the very female that they undertook to provide for I think it can be detrimental to their sense of self-worth at a deep and difficult level.

Secondly, I would agree that it is highly unlikely that you can fix your OH unless he sees a real "need" to fix himself, and he may not see that until he has actually lost everything. Am painfully aware of this in my own situation so this is not an easy point to address.

Thirdly, since I am aware of your postings on another thread, I would say that he has not been single handed in the decent to your current financial difficulties (:osorry) and that the person you CAN fix is yourself. Retail therapy is as much an addiction (and a cover for depression) as drink, and whilst you cannot address his emotional problems for him, you can address yours and move forward. Perhaps getting some counselling help for yourself to cut your spending on non-essentials would be the first port of call: as stronger and happier you would be better able to deal with all of the problems that you currently have to face, with or without him.

As to the money situation, I would strongly recommend a really honest SOA and posting it up (and just ignoring those that slate you without knowing any of the background) because only when YOU face the situation can you hope to climb clear. Myself, I would be looking to loose ALL non-essentials from my spending, possibly down-grading, doing away with vehicles, selling ANYTHING from within my home that might bring in enough money to allow me to keep my roof over my head and my job from dissapearing into the morass of bankcruptcy. Even if you have to sell more than you would want to at this point (jewellery and personal things for instance) then it has to be better than the forced loss of much, much more.

Not meaning this in any kind of harsh way - but wanted to be a "bit" blunt. I see so much of my own relationship in your post - and it has made me very aware of the things that I am doing wrong in my own that "enable" my sometime partner to continue his cycle of self-destruction and also to drag me down with him. I AM co-dependant and until I acknowledge this and deal with it I can't make my/our lives better either so it really isn't about knocking you:o Writing it down makes it even more clear and relevant to me as well - so I'm feeling the "blunts" just as much as you are but from them and seeing them in writing comes a clarity that might help both of us to climb free.

Good luck, but stop avoiding the SOA and be prepared to help yourself as when that happens I think the dynamics of the relationship might well be able to improve. If they do not, then possibly we both have to make changes for the good of our own self and our children that we possibly do not want it to come to.

Lotus-eater

salesaddict wrote: »

The thought I can't get out of my mind at the moment is would he be better off without me. Would he have been a different, happier man if he had met someone else?

Well that's a road that has already passed, really no point wondering that, it's gone and what's done is done.
But if it makes you feel any better, probably not. And it was his choice to be with you, to stay with you.

The question whether you like it or not, is, is he good for you and the kids?
Many women believe that if they kicked out their husband he couldn't cope on his own and would drink himself to death.... which is often the case, yet they then allow him to carry on drinking and carry on in the same manner as before.

Ultimately, no one is responsible for anyone's actions, but themselves.

If he doesn't want to get better (whether we are talking alcohol, or anything here) he won't.
I know we've spoken about this a bit, but if you let him carry on, he will.

Y'know this is a very long journey you have started on and it will be a long time before you realise exactly what is going on and why, some things you will never find out.

I know you said you feel maternal towards him, but he's not your child, he's a grown man, a grown man with problems and if he wants help and you want to, you should help him. But if he doesn't want help, you need to look after you and the kids first.
I've always said, make a man responsible and he will try to live up to it, baby him and he will let you.

salesaddict

HI all,

I just wanted to say I have finally posted my Soa. I need to go and lie down now.

salesaddict

moggylover wrote: »

Hi salesaddict, I read and thanked last night, but wanted to think things through before I posted because I am aware of your postings on another thread and wanted to get this across without sounding like I'm beating you up: which I am not, I just want to get the "other side" of this through.

Since I am in a similar position with regard to a long-term on/off relationship myself this is not me judging you: more me putting into words some of the things I am aware of from my own experience, and some of the things that become clearer to me from your own posts about my own situation.

Firstly, I think perhaps that "weaker" men are often drawn to "stronger" women but then find that their "manhood" is seriously challenged/damaged by that strength:o Within them there is probably still the pre-programmed need to be the hunter and look after their family themselves, when they are outstripped in this by the very female that they undertook to provide for I think it can be detrimental to their sense of self-worth at a deep and difficult level.

Secondly, I would agree that it is highly unlikely that you can fix your OH unless he sees a real "need" to fix himself, and he may not see that until he has actually lost everything. Am painfully aware of this in my own situation so this is not an easy point to address.

Thirdly, since I am aware of your postings on another thread, I would say that he has not been single handed in the decent to your current financial difficulties (:osorry) of tPlease don't apologise, I am only too painfully aware of this and that the person you CAN fix is yourself. Retail therapy is as much an addiction (and a cover for depression) as drink, and whilst you cannot address his emotional problems for him, you can address yours and move forward. Perhaps getting some counselling help for yourself to cut your spending on non-essentials would be the first port of call: as stronger and happier you would be better able to deal with all of the problems that you currently have to face, with or without him. Yes you are right and I am hoping a book that another poster mentioned that I am going to order tomorrow from the library will at least me take a step to understanding myself

As to the money situation, I would strongly recommend a really honest SOA and posting it up (and just ignoring those that slate you without knowing any of the background) because only when YOU face the situation can you hope to climb clear. Myself, I would be looking to loose ALL non-essentials from my spending, possibly down-grading, doing away with vehicles, selling ANYTHING from within my home that might bring in enough money to allow me to keep my roof over my head and my job from dissapearing into the morass of bankcruptcy. Even if you have to sell more than you would want to at this point (jewellery and personal things for instance) then it has to be better than the forced loss of much, much more. We are now seriously discussing selling our home and downsizing. we are making plans of what we would have to do to get the home into a saleable condition.

Not meaning this in any kind of harsh way - but wanted to be a "bit" blunt. I see so much of my own relationship in your post - and it has made me very aware of the things that I am doing wrong in my own that "enable" my sometime partner to continue his cycle of self-destruction and also to drag me down with him. I AM co-dependant and until I acknowledge this and deal with it I can't make my/our lives better either so it really isn't about knocking you:o Writing it down makes it even more clear and relevant to me as well - so I'm feeling the "blunts" just as much as you are but from them and seeing them in writing comes a clarity that might help both of us to climb free. You have put into words for me what I am, a co-dependant.
Good luck, but stop avoiding the SOA and be prepared to help yourself as when that happens I think the dynamics of the relationship might well be able to improve. If they do not, then possibly we both have to make changes for the good of our own self and our children that we possibly do not want it to come to Thankyou I have just posted the Soa but I don't think I will look at the replies tonight. I feel sick looking at it in black and white. Thankyou so much I really appreciate all the home truths.

Savvy_Sue

What a wonderful post from moggylover.

salesaddict wrote: »

I dare say this refusal will lead to him feeling terribly guilty. IMO guilt is a completely useless but debilitating emotion - I find I need to work out whether I AM guilty (in which case I need to DO something about it), or NOT guilty (in which case I tell myself to stop FEELING guilty). Of course that sounds a whole lot easier than it is, but if he feels guilty because he IS guilty, then it's up to him to do something about it. I don't know about his guilt but I feel so guilty all the time. I think a lot of it has to do with my catholic up bringing. I think its quite common, especially for lapsed catholics like myself to feel like this. I often feel when bad things happen that I have done something to bring it on myself. Like it is a punishment for me for my sins. The rational half of me can see how crazy that sounds. The catholic child inside me sees it as my just deserts.

I'm going to send you a PM about this because otherwise I risk sending the thread waaaay off topic. :rotfl:

salesaddict wrote: »

The thought I can't get out of my mind at the moment is would he be better off without me. Would he have been a different, happier man if he had met someone else?

Who knows? I agree with Lotus-eater! And I also wonder if you would have been a different, happier woman if you had met someone else. Now, think on THAT, and ask yourself if he ever asks himself that question ... The real question is, what are YOU going to do about it, carry on wondering if he would have been happier, or DO what YOU can to protect yourself and your children!

salesaddict

Lotus-eater wrote: »

Well that's a road that has already passed, really no point wondering that, it's gone and what's done is done.
But if it makes you feel any better, probably not. And it was his choice to be with you, to stay with you.

The question whether you like it or not, is, is he good for you and the kids?
Many women believe that if they kicked out their husband he couldn't cope on his own and would drink himself to death.... which is often the case, yet they then allow him to carry on drinking and carry on in the same manner as before.

Ultimately, no one is responsible for anyone's actions, but themselves.

If he doesn't want to get better (whether we are talking alcohol, or anything here) he won't.
I know we've spoken about this a bit, but if you let him carry on, he will.

Y'know this is a very long journey you have started on and it will be a long time before you realise exactly what is going on and why, some things you will never find out.

I know you said you feel maternal towards him, but he's not your child, he's a grown man, a grown man with problems and if he wants help and you want to, you should help him. But if he doesn't want help, you need to look after you and the kids first.
I've always said, make a man responsible and he will try to live up to it, baby him and he will let you.

Thanks again for all your kind support. Everything you say makes sense. It's just I am a bit lost as to how to change myself. We have been caught in the same dance for years really its just stressful times bring the cracks to the surface. What I haven't mentioned as I have not felt able to is that my Dad has been diagnosed with prostate, bowel and skin cancer. I have found the stress of caring for him very difficult. I can't even bare to go into detail about this. But I have been very angry about my perceived lack of support from my husband. This lack of support seems to show itself at every stressful time of our life together.

moggylover

salesaddict wrote: »

Thanks again for all your kind support. Everything you say makes sense. It's just I am a bit lost as to how to change myself. We have been caught in the same dance for years really its just stressful times bring the cracks to the surface. What I haven't mentioned as I have not felt able to is that my Dad has been diagnosed with prostate, bowel and skin cancer. I have found the stress of caring for him very difficult. I can't even bare to go into detail about this. But I have been very angry about my perceived lack of support from my husband. This lack of support seems to show itself at every stressful time of our life together.

Same here, although for me it is usually straight after the very stressed period when I am exhausted and just want to rest a while.

I believe that they will always do this to us: partly as a test, and partly because they just do not have any strength to offer us:o

Good luck again - am not good with SOA's there are others on the debt free board who will be of much more help there. Perhaps pop back here as and when you need some virtual hugs and support as we are all good at that bit here.

You will be in my thoughts, and I do hope you manage to start re-building yourself and finding the strength to do all the right things for yourself and your kids. IMO, he has the choice then: he can start fixing himself and grow and improve with you, or he can find himself left by the wayside. That is how I feel about my own relationship anyway, and I think you will as well once you get a bit of a handle on the finances.

frostyspice

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

....I also wonder if you would have been a different, happier woman if you had met someone else. Now, think on THAT, and ask yourself if he ever asks himself that question ... The real question is, what are YOU going to do about it, carry on wondering if he would have been happier, or DO what YOU can to protect yourself and your children!

Wise words.

salesaddict

Hello all,

I just wanted to say that I feel we have made some progress, if only measured in baby steps. My dh has agreed to change to my Doctor and we will go to see him together. I am not sure how long the process will take, I will try to find out tomorrow. I have picked up some good books from the library on depression in men and will be reading them over the next few days. I have ordered a couple of books that I hope will help me with my shopping addiction. I have started keeping a spending diary to make myself face upto what I have been doing.
It was a lovely Sunny day on Sunday and we went to the park and I managed to see glimpses of my old dh, playing with our dd and just having fun.
He has a long way to go and I am still not sure what exactly is causing the punchiness in him. He slurs his words and sways. I know Frostyspice equates this with secret drinking but I cannot smell it off him. I can find no sign of empty cans of bottles. There is no money missing from our Account. He is sleeping a lot better and I am just trying to be as loving and patient with him as I can be.

My Dad saw the oncologist today. When they removed the tumour in his bowel they took 20 lymph nodes and found traces of cancer in 3. He has to have 8 cycles of chemo over the next 6 months. I find the thought of the sickness and other side effects terrifying. But my Dad is being very pragmatic and saying he will just take one day at a time. I miss my Mum so.

Thanks for all your help so far. xx

Savvy_Sue

That's encouraging (and thanks for the pm).

salesaddict wrote: »

He has a long way to go and I am still not sure what exactly is causing the punchiness in him. He slurs his words and sways. I know Frostyspice equates this with secret drinking but I cannot smell it off him. I can find no sign of empty cans of bottles. There is no money missing from our Account. He is sleeping a lot better and I am just trying to be as loving and patient with him as I can be.

Without wishing to be alarmist, if he's not drinking then there may be some medical problem behind this, so please get him to your GP as soon as you can. And please don't let him minimise or deny his drinking to the GP - I know you're not sure, but you do know SOME of what he drinks. So if he says "Oh, I have the odd pint at the weekend" when you know it's always at least 4 a day plus 12 at weekends, then you should be ready to say that.

On the other hand, if you are not aware of any drinking and yet he is still slurring and swaying, then you must say this too.

Be thinking of you.