A man's view of dealing with unemployment and depression

salesaddict

Hi,

I have been following many threads for a couple of months now and I have really appreciated a lot of advice that other people have been given on a wide variety of subjects. But I am really at my wits-end with my dh. We have been together for 30 years- 25 years married. He is a fantastic father to our 2 children, a very kind and generous person. I love him very much so any advice concerning leaving him would not help me at the moment. It is something I have considered over the years when things have got really bad, but as I say I love him and our family and home life is happy the majority of the time. The problem at the moment is his depression which is always there under the surface but which comes to the fore in times of stress. He lost his business a year ago and has been out of work ever since. He suffers from a severe lack of confidence and has not even attempted to look for a job. He is not living in the real world and he is battling a drink problem which has slowly got worse over the years. He is on the wagon at the moment but that usually only lasts for a week. He has always worked from home but the work that he did has finally died a death with this latest recession. I have always worked and earn a good salary but because of this past year we are drowning in a sea of debt to the point where, if things don't improve later in the year we will be repossessed. I have tried talking to him about the seriousness of our situation but he just retreats further into himself. What I am really after is a man's point of view who has maybe been through a situation like this before and has come out the other side? What can I do to help him? Or maybe you have helped someone through this situation? Sorry for the long post and thanks for any help you can give.

roger196

1 Drink problem...alcoholics anonymous and their support groups for partners.
2 Men see their whole status and worth to society through their work. You have to work on re-establishing his confidence and self-worth. What was his last job. What skills does he have. Could he re-train. Has he any burning ambitions eg to help the poor in India etc. Is he applying for jobs with any likelihood of success. Consider voluntary work, there are usually plenty of charities/ clubs / societies looking for volunteers.
3 You need to carry out preliminary preparations to protect yourself and children if things do not work out.

salesaddict

Thankyou so much for your reply Roger. May I ask if you have been through anything like this yourself?

I have asked him to go to AA and I have said that I will go with him. I have asked him if we can go to his Doctor together. I think that he does not really see himself as an alcoholic, so he won't attend AA. He is a fanatically private man so he will not let his Doctor know. We have discussed this many times and his answer is always the same, He will do it on his own.

His business was printing for a niche market. That has now gone. He was an electrician many years ago and he had said that he would retrain and start working for himself doing this. But aside from sending off for the new edition of wiring regulations(which come to think of it I did) he has done nothing to update his qualification. He hasn't applied for any jobs. He seems to be frozen with fear and any of my suggestions fall on deaf ears. I have suggested volunteering as he is so good and patient with children and others. But he won't hear of it. Again it is an almost paralysing lack of confidence that he has always suffered from. He is a very solitary man so he has no friends that I can speak to who may be able to help me get through to him.
I am taking steps to restructure our debts. Although at the moment I am not absolutely confident about this. But this would give us breathing space for him to retrain. I am more than willing to sell our home and downsize. I have explained this to my teenage son and he understands. I won't speak you my dd until nearer the time as she is much younger.
I am just worried that I will take all these steps and he still will not come out of the depression he is in. I just cannot get through to him and I worry about him all the time. He can be quite hostile towards me at the moment and I don't understand this and feel very hurt by it. It makes it very hard to reach out to him physically as he tends to push me away. I try to stay positive but it is really beginning to wear me down

The_Banker_5

It sounds like he has all but given up because he cant see any light at the end of the tunnel.

He probably hasnt bothered looking for a job because he wouldnt find one with a high enough wage to lift you out of the state you are in now so has virtually resigned himself to the inevitable and is sort of just sitting back waiting for it to happen. (Whatever the inevitable is..........whether its you leaving him or the house getting reposessed)

He needs to have some hope (as do you both) but him mainly, and that is what is lacking at the moment.

Without hope we are nothing (Everyone needs hope)

I dont know if you have a mortgage or not but if you have you can approach your lender and ask for a mortgage break. Most lenders do this for customers who are going through a rough patch.

It means you wont have any mortgage payments to make for a set period. I think you can get these breaks for anything up to a year which means you wont pay any mortgage during that time, however your mortgage payments will rise slightly when you start paying them again.

ragz_2

I always say a man without a job is a sorry sight. They are designed to be busy, to have a purpose and provide...
I have seen many men battle depression during times of unemployment, my own husband included. I totally agree with Roger on this

Men see their whole status and worth to society through their work. You have to work on re-establishing his confidence and self-worth.

However with regard to the drinking I don't agree that AA is always the best way. Especially with people who's drinking is a problem but still at a socially acceptabe level. For example someone may not drink until the evening/afternoon and therefore uphold that they cannot be an alcoholic because they don't drink all day. But it does sound like he realises there is a problem with his drinking, which is a good sign.

Would he be able to approach his doctor about the depression? I know several people who have benefitted greatly with medication for depression, although it is not for everyone it is often worth a try and may help him get better enough to start a job/training which in itself would then help even more.

You are doing well to be dealing with the financial side of life, rather than hiding from it like many in your position would do. But be careful not to sound critical when discussing money with your husband, don't make him feel like you are blaming him for the family having to cut back - men take their role of provider very seriously and this may make him more depressed.

Please do not take his hostility too personally, when someone is either an alcoholic or depressed or both they are ill and their emotions and behaviour are hard to relate to. Do some research yourself into both these conditions to help you better understand but don't expect to be able to empathise.

Remember, your husband can and will get better but it is something he has to do for himself.



Best wishes and good luck.

Primrose

I do sympathise. Your husband seems to be in a viscious circle of depression and lack of self-confidence and the one erodes the other.
Can I suggest you buy him a copy of "What colour is your Parachute? by Richard Nelson Bolles (or borrow it from your local library). It's a practical handbook for those who are job-seeking or thinking of a career change and it's full of good advice and help for people who need some assistance in thinking outside the box when seeking new, or a different kind of employment. You will probably find it helpful to read it yourself. It might trigger some ideas for new lines of thinking.

Your husband has probably always prided himself on his ability to provide for his wife and family and the collapse of his business must have been a huge blow to his self-confidence. Probably the best thing you can do at the moment is sit down with him, insist that he goes to talk to his GP, either with you or without you, and do all you can to reassure him that he is still of huge importance in you life, and your childrens' lives. If necessary, make the appointment with your GP yourself and do not take NO for an answer. It may well be that he cannot even summon up the courage to know what to say. Sit down and rehease some opening lines with him. Sometimes depression really does mean that you have to help people with this paralyzing loss of self-confidence even to the extent of rehearsing with them first the most basic and fundamental conversational inter-actions with other people.

It must be a huge strain on you at the moment taking financial and emotional responsibility for everything. If you husband is drinking too much and isn't working and earning, where is he getting the money for alcohol from? If it is coming from your salary, I think you have to cut this out completely from your household purchasing budget.

Does you local Council's Education Department offer any Adult Education classes on self-confidence building? Your local library may have details, but these could possibly help if you could get him to attend. Often they are free for unemployed people.

You might, at some point, have to sit down with your husband and issue him with an ultimatum to try and get things back on track. But this should be a last resort. It sounds as if a lot of hugs, hand holding and confidence boosting is what's needed at the moment, and possibly some gentle urging from your teenage son too, might help. Could they go out and watch football together or go walking, which might help might your husband to open up a little?

Try to devise some simple family activities together - Scrabble, board games, walks, cooking a new recipe together , planning a new plot in the garden to grow vegetables, etc. - things in which your husband can participate without too much intellectual stress. Sometimes the confidence building has to start small and grow gradually.

salesaddict

The_Banker wrote: »

It sounds like he has all but given up because he cant see any light at the end of the tunnel. Yes, you are right here, and I find that attitude very difficult to deal with because I was brought up to keep fighting and work your way through things. It was really instilled in us that there is always someone worse off and to do any job no matter how menial just to keep going till better times

He probably hasnt bothered looking for a job because he wouldnt find one with a high enough wage to lift you out of the state you are in now so has virtually resigned himself to the inevitable and is sort of just sitting back waiting for it to happen. (Whatever the inevitable is..........whether its you leaving him or the house getting reposessed). He has never earned particularly good money but it has always suited him to work from home and be there to pick the kids up from school. I long ago stopped feeling bitter about wanting to be a sahm when the kids were younger. I have accepted that I am the main breadwinner and I have had very stressful jobs in the Financial services sector working 12 hour days plus weekends and Bank Holidays.(Oh how I wish those halcyon days of 2007 and before were back again.)

He needs to have some hope (as do you both) but him mainly, and that is what is lacking at the moment. Yes, again you are right here.

Without hope we are nothing (Everyone needs hope)

I dont know if you have a mortgage or not but if you have you can approach your lender and ask for a mortgage break. Most lenders do this for customers who are going through a rough patch. We have just come to the end of our 1 year mortgage payment holiday. That is why I feel so angry and desperate at the moment. He has wasted a whole year doing nothing. I am angry with myself that it is only latterly that I have faced up to just how depressed he is.

It means you wont have any mortgage payments to make for a set period. I think you can get these breaks for anything up to a year which means you wont pay any mortgage during that time, however your mortgage payments will rise slightly when you start paying them again
I have now applied to pay interest only and I am going to try to restructure our debts but I am not hopeful. I am terrified of bankruptcy as all debts are in my name. That means I would not be able to carry on working in the FS sector.

Thankyou so much for your thoughts I was beginning to worry that I would not have any responses

salesaddict

ragz wrote: »

I always say a man without a job is a sorry sight. They are designed to be busy, to have a purpose and provide...
I have seen many men battle depression during times of unemployment, my own husband included. I totally agree with Roger on this
Unfortunately this is part of the problem as I see it. He has never defined himself through work. He is not a lazy man by any means, However he does have a very laid back nature and is not in the least bit competetive, or a go getter. Tbh he has always been quite happy to let me been the main breadwinner and he has been quite happy to poodle along and be at home with the kids.


However with regard to the drinking I don't agree that AA is always the best way. Especially with people who's drinking is a problem but still at a socially acceptabe level. For example someone may not drink until the evening/afternoon and therefore uphold that they cannot be an alcoholic because they don't drink all day. But it does sound like he realises there is a problem with his drinking, which is a good sign. Yes he drinks in the evening at home.But he drinks the highest strength lager and latterly it takes very little to make him seem really p&ss&d. However as I mentioned he does realise that this is a problem. Unfortunately when he doesn't drink he can't sleep a wink. I think that again is a viscous circle that he is caught up in. Because it is so difficult for anyone to cope without sleep

Would he be able to approach his doctor about the depression? I know several people who have benefitted greatly with medication for depression, although it is not for everyone it is often worth a try and may help him get better enough to start a job/training which in itself would then help even more. I have asked him again tonight if I can come to see his Doctor with him. He has again refused as he says he doesn't want anything on his record saying that he has a drink problem. It is very hard to talk to him as he just withdraws from me. I am really doing my best but I am now finding it so difficult.

You are doing well to be dealing with the financial side of life, rather than hiding from it like many in your position would do. But be careful not to sound critical when discussing money with your husband, don't make him feel like you are blaming him for the family having to cut back - men take their role of provider very seriously and this may make him more depressed.

Please do not take his hostility too personally, when someone is either an alcoholic or depressed or both they are ill and their emotions and behaviour are hard to relate to. Do some research yourself into both these conditions to help you better understand but don't expect to be able to empathise.

Remember, your husband can and will get better but it is something he has to do for himself.

Thankyou so much for your input I really do appreciate it

salesaddict

]I do sympathise. Your husband seems to be in a viscious circle of depression and lack of self-confidence and the one erodes the other.
Can I suggest you buy him a copy of "What colour is your Parachute? by Richard Nelson Bolles (or borrow it from your local library). It's a practical handbook for those who are job-seeking or thinking of a career change and it's full of good advice and help for people who need some assistance in thinking outside the box when seeking new, or a different kind of employment. You will probably find it helpful to read it yourself. It might trigger some ideas for new lines of thinking. I will read this myself as another of my husbands problems is that he is dyslexic. He is a very clever man with practical things and is the type of person who can answer questions on mastermind and university challenge. But if you saw his writing you would think he was barely literate. This, of course does not help with the situation he finds himself in. He is frightened to even register at the job centre because of his lack of basic skills. He will not go on any of the government run basic skills courses and he hides his fears behind rants about "foreigners taking our jobs". Although let me assure you that underneath all that he is not a racist or a bigot. Again its the mindset he is in.

Your husband has probably always prided himself on his ability to provide for his wife and family and the collapse of his business must have been a huge blow to his self-confidence. I have to be honest with myself here in that what is really freaking him out is that he has lost control of his own little world, working from home only dealing with the same customers for the past 25 years and now they are all bankrupt and his niche market has gone. Probably the best thing you can do at the moment is sit down with him, insist that he goes to talk to his GP, either with you or without you, and do all you can to reassure him that he is still of huge importance in you life, and your childrens' lives. If necessary, make the appointment with your GP yourself and do not take NO for an answer. It may well be that he cannot even summon up the courage to know what to say. Sit down and rehease some opening lines with him. Sometimes depression really does mean that you have to help people with this paralyzing loss of self-confidence even to the extent of rehearsing with them first the most basic and fundamental conversational inter-actions with other people.

It must be a huge strain on you at the moment taking financial and emotional responsibility for everything. If you husband is drinking too much and isn't working and earning, where is he getting the money for alcohol from? If it is coming from your salary, I think you have to cut this out completely from your household purchasing budget. After many false starts over the past 15 years, he has now gone a whole week without a drink. My money has always gone into our joint account. I have no problem being the main breadwinner if I could make ends meet.But he won't even agree to sell the house and downsize. Again this all seems to do with being scared rigid and resisting all change.

Does you local Council's Education Department offer any Adult Education classes on self-confidence building? Your local library may have details, but these could possibly help if you could get him to attend. Often they are free for unemployed people. I will try to find out about this but he has so far refused to register as unemployed.

You might, at some point, have to sit down with your husband and issue him with an ultimatum to try and get things back on track. Unfortunately when I did this a few weeks ago it totally back-fired and he tried to leave. I was 2 hours begging him to stay. He had nowhere to go to. No friends to turn to and was not in his right mind at all. This was all witnessed by my two lovely children and was heartbreaking for them. But this should be a last resort. It sounds as if a lot of hugs, hand holding and confidence boosting is what's needed at the moment, and possibly some gentle urging from your teenage son too, might help. Could they go out and watch football together or go walking, which might help might your husband to open up a little? Yes they do things together and are very close. My son has tried to talk to my husband but he just closes down. My son has been a great support to me, he does understand what is going on.

Try to devise some simple family activities together - Scrabble, board games, walks, cooking a new recipe together , planning a new plot in the garden to grow vegetables, etc. - things in which your husband can participate without too much intellectual stress. Sometimes the confidence building has to start small and grow gradually I will definitely try more of this

thankyou so much for your input I really do appreciate it

princess

Could you insist on a home visit from your husbands GP? Things do sound quite desperate

salesaddict

princess wrote: »

Could you insist on a home visit from your husbands GP? Things do sound quite desperate

Princess, I dread to think what his reaction would be to that.
We have separate Doctors and his Doctor is one of the most unapproachable I have ever come accross. What I have not mentioned before and I should have because it has a real bearing on my husbands lack of confidence.
For the past 25 years he has suffered from Psoriatic arthritis. This means that he has the skin complaint Psoriasis. This is a chronic condition and the dry red patches have at times covered 80 pct of his skin including his face. This is one of the reasons he has always like to stay out of sight. The skin condition causes the arthritis. If the skin can be cleared the arthritis goes. It also causes him to have a lowered immune system and he often has flu-like symptons and is really quite unwell and has to take to his bed. This is another reason he has always worked for himself as no employer would have put up with the sick leave. Fortunately just this year he has been put on a last ditch(very expensive) treatment whereby I administer an injection of something called Enbrel once a week.This has totally cleared his unsightly skin complaint and he no longer has the joint pain. This has been like a miracle cure and I thought that once we found a cure for this he would be a new man. However it hasn't improved his confidence one jot. He is a really handsome man (imo) and he just has never been able to see this. I am always complimentary to him about his looks and I always saw past the skin condition and he knows this. Yet still I cannot instill any confidence in him