Division of labour - big row brewing

MissMotivation

Brighton_belle wrote: »

But isn't that the point Missmotivation - you do it for you - the OP is expected to do it for herself (normal) and for another adult who is happy to coast on someone elses efforts.

BUT he does do stuff, some of the stuff he is doing is far more time consuming than the stuff she is doing. You can't compare every chore and it will never be completely equal in terms of time etc.

sarahs999

Gosh, lots of replies since I've been away. Thanks for all your thoughts.

I have to say I'm very surprised at the amount of people on here that think somehow it's my job to fit all these extra things in and that I'm 'lucky' to have a DH that helps at all. Hello?! As someone else pointed out, it is 2009, not 1909. We are both human beings who go out to work full time and have a house to look after. My point is simply that this should be more equal. Comaprisons to SAHM and single mums are pointless because that's a completely different set up. Don't read this wrong - I'm full of admiration for single mums, I have no idea how you do it all. But it is a different problem.

A few points: he did take our son fishing. Our son is four, they don't have a very long attention span at that age. My DH's idea of a day fishing is 12 hours sat on a riverbank, getting up at 5.30 in the morning. So that doesn't work.

And please, the cleaner thing? We chose to do that to take some of the burden off to try to improve our lifestyle. I'm not going to apologise for that. Everyone has his or her indulgence, some smoke, some go out clubbing, we have a cleaner.

Anyway, it's clear that no one thinks I should show him the list, so I won't do that. I am a bit worried though about the 'asking him to do things' thing. That's where nagging starts, right? But I might look into trying to get him to take responsibility for another section of our lives. Not sure which though, and whoever suggested finanaces, you wouldn't have done if you knew how hopeless he is! IT's his achilles heel. And he happily admits that.

Thanks all.

funkymonkey849

MissMotivation wrote: »

If you had read my post correctly you would understand the point I was trying to make.

As I said.....if it's a time issue then I don't see the problem....it can be done, this is why I compared it to my situation.

If it's an inequality issue then that's a different matter but IME no relationship is completely equal, it's a partnership and you both need to do what has to be done. I don't a point in arguing about it that's all.

Of course it's an equality issue - why is it fair that one person does more while the other gets an easy ride! It then becomes a time thing, because why is it fair that one person has free time to do what they like while the other is doing chores?

I did read your post correctly but I feel your point is invalid as the OP is not a single mum so doesn't have to cope with the demands of a single parent, however why should that mean that her OH can get away with doing less?

funkymonkey849

sarahs999 wrote: »

I have to say I'm very surprised at the amount of people on here that think somehow it's my job to fit all these extra things in and that I'm 'lucky' to have a DH that helps at all. Hello?! As someone else pointed out, it is 2009, not 1909.

I agree, and I think this is where the problem begins.

The traditional dimensions of family life have changed - woman often now work the same hours as men, however the deep rooted perceptions of female responsibilities - and women's maternal and nesting instincts - haven't changed, nor are they likely to.

From an early age girls are more likely to play role playing games portraying the traditional female roles - playing 'house', having tea parties, make believe cooking. As a child I was taught how to cook, sew, iron, wash clothes, my brother was not.

Women are now expected to work full time AND continue their domestic duties, and men have a hard time adjusting to this. Most of my female friends feel their partners don't pull their weight. I think it's ridiculous and men should pull their socks up.

sarahs999 wrote: »

Anyway, it's clear that no one thinks I should show him the list, so I won't do that. I am a bit worried though about the 'asking him to do things' thing. That's where nagging starts, right? .

Yep I get accused of nagging, if I don't then nothing gets done, but if I do then he refuses out of principle. It's frustrating.

Person_one

sarahs999 wrote: »

Gosh, lots of replies since I've been away. Thanks for all your thoughts.

I have to say I'm very surprised at the amount of people on here that think somehow it's my job to fit all these extra things in and that I'm 'lucky' to have a DH that helps at all. Hello?! As someone else pointed out, it is 2009, not 1909. We are both human beings who go out to work full time and have a house to look after. My point is simply that this should be more equal. Comaprisons to SAHM and single mums are pointless because that's a completely different set up. Don't read this wrong - I'm full of admiration for single mums, I have no idea how you do it all. But it is a different problem.

A few points: he did take our son fishing. Our son is four, they don't have a very long attention span at that age. My DH's idea of a day fishing is 12 hours sat on a riverbank, getting up at 5.30 in the morning. So that doesn't work.

And please, the cleaner thing? We chose to do that to take some of the burden off to try to improve our lifestyle. I'm not going to apologise for that. Everyone has his or her indulgence, some smoke, some go out clubbing, we have a cleaner.

Anyway, it's clear that no one thinks I should show him the list, so I won't do that. I am a bit worried though about the 'asking him to do things' thing. That's where nagging starts, right? But I might look into trying to get him to take responsibility for another section of our lives. Not sure which though, and whoever suggested finanaces, you wouldn't have done if you knew how hopeless he is! IT's his achilles heel. And he happily admits that.

Thanks all.

OP, I completely understand your problem. Its not to do with how much work there is to be done its the fact that the running of the household is your responsibility to organise and keep on top of, that even if he's ok with doing some tasks its your responsibility to ask him as though a man isn't capable of spotting a pile of dirty dishes, an unpaid bill or a hungry child and realising that its within his power to fix them!

I saw this dynamic with my parents, my mum is responsible for everything from the finances to the laundry to the DIY and if my dad does anything its because he's 'helping' with one specific task. Not because he also lives in the house, eats the food, uses the bathroom etc. I swore I would never be in that situation and now that I've just moved in with my OH thank goodness he has lived on his own for a few years so it wouldn't even occur to him not to wash his own clothes, take turns cooking, or hoover the flat if he spots that it needs hoovering!

I'm going to go against the majority here and say that a list might be useful, but not the one from your first post. I think you should sit down with him and tell him how you fell like the whole weight of running the family falls on your shoulders and that its too big a burden for one person and he needs to help. As part of this conversation you could suggest pinning a piece of paper on the fridge of somewhere with a column for both of your names. Then, each time during the following week one of you does something you consider a 'household task' you write it on the list together with the time it took. You can compare at the end of a week, a month and work to make it more equal.

(oh, and I think there should be a little star next to each task that was performed only being asked to!)

bylromarha

sarahs999 wrote: »

Anyway, it's clear that no one thinks I should show him the list, so I won't do that. I am a bit worried though about the 'asking him to do things' thing. That's where nagging starts, right?

No, nagging is where you go on and on and on.

saying "the washing up and the ironing need doing by the end of the day -which one do you fancy love?" and saying nothing more is not nagging. Its divvying up household responsibilites, with you taking a lead. Someone has to lead on these things as they never run like clockwork.

He sounds like a good guy and will probably respond to a nice ask. My OH needed a little persuasion when we agreed that I should take the lead in the house (seeing as it was a strength of mine to spot what needed doing)

"the washing up and the ironing need doing by the end of the day -which one do you fancy love? And I think I'll be going straight to bed when both the jobs are done..."

well, maybe he didn't need persuading to wash up, but this method was far more fun!

funkymonkey849

bylromarha wrote: »

saying "the washing up and the ironing need doing by the end of the day -which one do you fancy love?" and saying nothing more is not nagging.

What happens when they don't!

zara*elise

funkymonkey849 wrote: »

I agree, and I think this is where the problem begins.

The traditional dimensions of family life have changed - woman often now work the same hours as men, however the deep rooted perceptions of female responsibilities - and women's maternal and nesting instincts - haven't changed, nor are they likely to.

And this is what I was pointing out. Some men are still stuck in the timewarp of 'a woman's place is by the sink'. The OP is very fortunate that her DH does help her and isn't digging his heels in and adopting that archaic mindset. Some women do have to, not out of choice, work a full time job AND look after children, AND cook clean etc. Do I think that's right? No, of course not!

What I was stating is that instead of focusing on the fact that DH only does 4 jobs instead of 7, why not be grateful he's helping out at all? Many women don't have that luxury today. So he doesn't pay the cleaner, what's the big deal with that? In my experience women are much more efficient at running a home, and men, unless they've lived on their own, will never understand what goes into organising a home.

If you really want him to help then you have to communicate this to him in a kind, diplomatic manner. Which is why I suggest you sort out a chart of responsibilities that include your DH, you and your DS. You can rotate the chores week by week as another poster suggested so everyone get's some variety and everyone knows what each other does.

Personally, I have no problem with the more traditional role of women keeping the home and a man working, but then again I'm not from a typical British family. That's just my opinion though.

lostinrates

sarahs999 wrote: »

Anyway, it's clear that no one thinks I should show him the list, so I won't do that. I am a bit worried though about the 'asking him to do things' thing. That's where nagging starts, right?.

FWIW I used to go fishing with my dad when I was that age....but it was sea fishing in warm climes, so a bit different.

This is how I ask without nagging (although my husband is great and helps, and I don't work...much)

''Darling, I feel overwhelmed by X and Y, and I know you've been doing Z but I'm struggling and I need you''.

Rather than suggesting he has let me down by not doing something, and I have to say mine rarely does that, I say I need help, not HE needs to help me. I think putting the onus on someone else can always be a bit off putting. I don't think mostpartners want to see their loved one struggle.

Also, DH sometimes makes the bed at the weekend, but by mutual agreement, if I see him making the bed I am not to comment but leave the room. My attempts to ''help'' or ''do it properly'' are received, understandably, as critism or failure...and while I may like pillows ''just so'' and the blanket floded ''like this'' he might not care, or even prefer it differently. I am battling with myself to develop the grace to know that ometime ''doing something'' can reach an end at different points for different people, and neither of us are necessarily right.

Rachel83

Maybe tell him you'd like him to do this or that rather than presenting him with a list thats basically stating everything he's not doing.

How about getting a calender that you can write things that each of you are going to do and get yourself organised instead of giving him a list of everything he doesn't do?

I'm sure he does things you don't think of, maybe get yourself a hobbie too so your not so resentful of his fishing time off... You could even go with him and give him company, get him to teach you how to do it then you both have parent time off maybe communicate better too