Elderly mother & hygiene & family sharing jobs/care

Bogof_Babe

That's exactly what I was getting at Churchrat. With the best will in the world, sometimes the professional approach is called for. After all, those people are trained in dealing with all these problems, and will have seen and dealt with it all before. They will also know exactly what department of the help available to call in.

MrsE needs a break, and relying on her sisters to step in is a bit hit and miss.

zippychick

Just wanted to say MrsE, you deserve a medal.

I have no advice or wisdom for you, just respect.

Katgrit

MrsE wrote: »

She doesn't want to go out, so I can't use that as a bribe.

When I said it to her (before I walked out) when we got back & I told her the reason my sisters rarely visit & won't have her in their cars or homes is because she smells so bad, her answer was "I don't ask anyone to take me anywhere".

This could really be my Nan you are talking about!! My dad is an only child so me, my brother and Mum were her only family and all her brother and sisiters had already died (if i get confused with my past and presnt tense it because she only passed away recently!). So she had just us 4. She was vile to my poor dad, convinced he was lying to her about everything, and would start an arguement every Sunday when she came over to visit us. When my dad told her he had cancer her reply was (and we do laugh about this now!) - "Well thats alright for you, they can do something about that, I've had a headcahe all day"!! In her last few years she really was a misery. If she passed someone on the street and they didn't see her, she decided they'd ignored her, and made it her mission to be horrid to that person from then on. She wasn't eating very well, not proper meals anyway, just sweet tasty "instant" stuff such as pork pies, mr kipling slices and maryland cookies. From going to bingo at the local labour club, shopping down the high street and walking miles she gradually, over a decade or so, became very withdrawn. My parents were working full time but used to do all her shopping (if she went with them she would just lean on the trolley and shuffle round) and sort all her financial stuff out and she was never grateful, always moaning that other peoples grown up children did more for them (not realising that those grown up children where unemployed and shared the same council house as their Mum). Mum would also go round once a week with fish and chips pretending they prefered the chippy nearer to her house, just to make sure she ate properly once at least once a week. She also usually came to our house on Sundays for lunch, where my parents would treat her to the luxury of a big deep bubble bath in their "posh" bathroom which she looked forward to every week. She was contantly on at my Dad for whatever new thing she wanted, be it sataliete telly, a mobile phone, a new armchair, shoes, shed roof re-felting, garden fence putting up, not realising that my dad himself has aged and is approaching 60 and cant be climbing up ontop of her shed!! It got to a point where my dad would give her a warning about having a go and him and my Mum and if she carried on he would just walk out. They could go weeks without speaking and eventually she would realise she couldnt manage without him and he wasn't devil child after all. There was just NO way of reasoning with her as she was just so stubborn so dad had to just keep walking out until she learned. Many a time he would slam her door being him and clang the garden gate on the way out, with my Mum still sitting on the couch wailing "Noooo, what did you have to say that to him for??"

She eventually had a fall and ended up in hospital were the doctor diagnosed severe depression, which came as a bit of a surprise. Her life had boiled down to watching telly and nothing else. She'd get up at 7am and put the telly on. She would eat a pie and kipling slice or several for lunch as it was too much hastle cooking and sit watching telly til it waa time for a scotch egg and more kipling slices and then bed at 11pm. While being sweetness and light to all her neighbours no-one would visit because of her chronic chain smoking. She was scared of falling outside so admitted she hadn't been out of the house for ages, she was even paying the lad over the road to go for her cigs and newspaper. As weeks went on she'd find reason not to come to our house on Sundays. First it was just one week a month she'd miss, then it was every fortnight then most weeks she would refuse to come. Sometimes because she genuinely was happier at home tucked up watching Deal or No Deal and was just used to doing that, and on bad days it was because in her mind we hated her and she was a burden and we didnt really want her going round anyway(?!!) She was just very very lonely and isolated and BY CHOICE lived a miserable existance in a crumbling old tiny 2 up 2 down.

She'd come from a big family and being the youngest it seemed when she was little she was bullied and always put upon and been skivvy to the rest. So she just wanted to feel special. It basically boiled down to the fact that she just wanted us to do more things for her in a strange way to prove Dad LOVED her and would put himself out for her, be it financially or time-wise. If she was horrid and we stuck round then we loved her. Simple.

Sorry, big long ramble i know, i've ended up reminiscing more than helping!! But what i think i'm trying to say (and i'm even sure anymore!!) is that rather than trying to reolve the issue of her not washing, you need to find the reason she WON'T wash. If she cant be bothered and is choosing to be miserable maybe she needs help with depression too. A day centre would have been great for my Nan but we just didnt realise she was that low, because she never talked.

SORRY this has been such a long post.

EDIT: Moral of story - read to end of thread before you reply!! Didnt notice the dementia and depression alreday mentioned! Whoops.

Marcheline

Hi again OP, to be honest, I'm not entirely sure that there MUST be a 'mental' reason for her not wanting to wash. It really could just be that she's old and curmudgeonly and couldn't give 2 hoots that she smells. Like you say, personal hygiene in the age (and part of the world she grew up in) would never have come too high on the agenda, as you yourself admit. My mum is similar and she's 20 years younger than your mum (although she does not smell, a daily shower is not a notion that enters her head and she's always telling my sister and I we wash too much to be healthy!)

Although your sisters do not help much, I get the feeling that if your mum washed more often, you would be happier to see her more (correct me if I'm wrong with that assumption though) At the end of the day, old people seem to me to revert back to childhood in quite a few instances and if you have children yourself they will learn from you how to cope with ageing relatives. What I mean by that is that it could be you in 30 years time acting the same way (for whatever reason) and I am sure you would like relatives to rally round you too. I don't mean that to sound like a criticism of the way you are currently doing things, as I have no idea about your childhood and other things that may make you less inclined to help her, but it might be something to think about. Good luck with it, it does sound a difficult position to be in.

MrsE_2

Katgrit wrote: »

Sorry, big long ramble i know, i've ended up reminiscing more than helping!! But what i think i'm trying to say (and i'm even sure anymore!!) is that rather than trying to reolve the issue of her not washing, you need to find the reason she WON'T wash. If she cant be bothered and is choosing to be miserable maybe she needs help with depression too. A day centre would have been great for my Nan but we just didnt realise she was that low, because she never talked.

SORRY this has been such a long post.

EDIT: Moral of story - read to end of thread before you reply!! Didnt notice the dementia and depression alreday mentioned! Whoops.

Very similar in lots of ways, thank you for your post.
However my mum won't hear of a day centre or building a social life. The only people she wants to see are her family (& even then she sits there mostly ignoring us & staring at the TV). She got very annoyed with the doctor yesterday when she suggested it.

MrsE_2

Marcheline wrote: »

Hi again OP, to be honest, I'm not entirely sure that there MUST be a 'mental' reason for her not wanting to wash. It really could just be that she's old and curmudgeonly and couldn't give 2 hoots that she smells.
Yes, she's never been overly keen about showering/bathing.

Although your sisters do not help much, I get the feeling that if your mum washed more often, you would be happier to see her more (correct me if I'm wrong with that assumption though)
You're dead right & I'm pretty sure the rest of the family would too.

What I mean by that is that it could be you in 30 years time acting the same way (for whatever reason)
I can never forsee a time when I will not want to wash, I honestly would rather be dead than live like her. My sister once said (very upset) that she lives little better than an animal.

and I am sure you would like relatives to rally round you too. I don't mean that to sound like a criticism of the way you are currently doing things, as I have no idea about your childhood and other things that may make you less inclined to help her, but it might be something to think about. Good luck with it, it does sound a difficult position to be in.

I don't owe her as much as my younger sister does. She was OK or not depending often on whether she was with my step-father (as she was for nearly 18 years) & I & older sister were in the way.

margaretclare

You young things are making me feel old, all the anecdotes about your elderly parents/grandparents!

My 74th birthday is only a couple of weeks away, DH had his at end of December. We BOTH shower daily!! I couldn't imagine not being able to shower, especially in the recent hot weather - I've sometimes had a shower in the evening as well because sweat drying on your skin is so uncomfortable. Neither of us smoke and we do not eat Mr Kipling's or anything like that. DH is an insulin-using diabetic and I'm trying to lose weight, so those types of easily-available carbohydrate fix do not enter this house.

We had problems when DH was in hospital last autumn. He was in there for 4 weeks altogether and in that time, did not have a shower. The physio/OT people told us quite straight-facedly that 'it was hospital policy that a strip-wash was all that was required'. 'For how long?' I asked. 'Oh, for the rest of his life' came the response. This was when I was trying to get our shower cubicle replaced - I gave up on them and went straight to a neighbour who did the work I wanted done. He's a craftsman who showed me what he'd done in his own house - 'I want one!' I said, and next week he did it.

When I was in hospital a couple of years ago I was met with 'you just manage with a bowl' kind of stuff. Luckily a kind junior sister agreed to wheel me to the shower room. That shower felt marvellous. I couldn't have imagined not being able to wash all over in the shower, wash my hair, put on clean bra and pants, and nightie. Being clean is just part of my life. I just hate the thought that anyone looks at my age-group and lumps us all together.

MrsE_2

churchrat wrote: »

It is obviuos to you that she has mental health problems (whatever the cause) but perhaps she needs to be assessed as being "on her own" to really get the help she needs. For example--how would she get to the hospital appointments if you did not arrange it? I don't mean that you just didn't take her, I mean NOT take any involvment in it at all? Getting to hospital on time is really quite difficult if you chop it up into its peices--could she manage it?

I actually work for social services (but in the next county & not in Elderly & not operational) but I do have a fair idea of how things work.

If I didn't take her to the hospital appointments, she wouldn't just not go, she wouldn't even know she had to be there. She wouldn't leave the house on her own. She wouldn't even want to come with me to do her shopping.

MrsE_2

margaretclare wrote: »

You young things are making me feel old, all the anecdotes about your elderly parents/grandparents!

My 74th birthday is only a couple of weeks away, DH had his at end of December. We BOTH shower daily!! I couldn't imagine not being able to shower, especially in the recent hot weather - I've sometimes had a shower in the evening as well because sweat drying on your skin is so uncomfortable. Neither of us smoke and we do not eat Mr Kipling's or anything like that. DH is an insulin-using diabetic and I'm trying to lose weight, so those types of easily-available carbohydrate fix do not enter this house.

Believe me I know all older people are not like my mother.
As I said my Gran was immaculate.
She didn't even have a bathroom or hot running water (she did have hot running water the last few years of her life) & she was NOTHING like my mum. Plus she lived in the west of Ireland all her life;)

Primrose

I really feel for you. Even ten years after he died I still remember the blazing rows I used to have with my father, who suffered from dimentia, when I tried to get him to change his filthy urine stained trousers so that I could wash them for him.
Maybe it's time for you to start getting a little tough. Tell your mother that you've developed an infection immunity problem which means you've become highly susceptible to getting infections so you won't be able to visit and help her unless she improves her hygiene as it could be dangerous for you. Let her understand she now has a choice. Your hygiene standards apply from now on or you can no longer visit and help her. Try it out for a fortnight and see what happens. Talk to her carers and get them to tell her the same story. Let her know that if she has an accident and is found in that unhygienic state Social Service will insist on her being taken into care as she's incapable of looking after herself. Tell her her hairdresser and chiropodist cannot be expected to put up with her lack of hygiene any longer and could, at any point, refuse to come any more. You've been playing it her way long enough. Time to be a little assertive and turn the tables before you make yourself really ill trying to cope.