Getting married when you already live together, have children and the rest anyway!

RoxieW

Mely wrote: »

The whole point of my post was that marriage ISNT just a piece of paper. It is a public commitment to each other of your love, and that you will be together for life. These days i dont think there is enough compromise in a lot of marriages, and people dont seem to work at things and run down to the solicitors for a divorce,the minute things arent rosey! Hence the high divorce rates. I know that sometimes people arent suited,and cant work things out,but i know that a lot of couples give up far too easily!
Iain Duncan-Smith has a Conservative think tank, and they are recommending that couples should have a compulsory three month 'cooling off' period. Before they can start divorce proceedings. And he is also proposing a network of family relationship centres to advise before and during marriage. Mr Duncan-Smith said research had suggested that young people had incredibly high expectations of marriage, and the idea of compromise by couples seems to have disappeared.
I believe that couples should be in a loving marriage before having children(and keep working hard on that marriage!). If you cant commit yourselves publicly into marriage,why would you think its ok to have children? I dont think its fair on them. They deserve to know their parents have made that commitment to each other and that they where born in marriage.

I'm sorry Mely but I can't help finding your posts a touch naive. Yes - perhaps in an ideal world everyone would be in happy marriages before having children and would continue to maintain a happy marriage for the rest of their lives. Unfortunately though it doesn't work out like that for a lot of people.
I think the most important thing for a child is having two happy parents - ideally together - whether they are married or not. Is it better for a child to have two miserable married parents staying together for the sake of the children - where one or both cheats or there is simply not a loving, good atmosphere in the house? Is is better for children to witness arguments, domestic violence or worse? Is that ok because a couple are sticking to their commitment and their marriage?
I believe in marriage. I agree with some of your points - I feel some people have no respect for commitment. I agree some people have too high expectations and are not prepared to compromise. But there's compromise and then there is too much compromise. If someone is in a very unhappy, loveless, perhaps destructive relationship then they should get out. That kind of home life is no good for children.
I agree some dont work at a marriage - ruining the relationship. But if it's ruined it's ruined. Being married wont keep a relationship happy. There are many ways in which people can change and things go wrong and there is no going back for a couple. Imposing a 3 mth waiting time wont rebuild trust, affection, loyalty, love...
Personally, I'm glad that I am married and I will continue to work at my relationship in order to keep it loving and happy. I'm prepared to put the work in to maintain what we have because I want my children to grow up in a HAPPY two parent household. I think that is of the most importance not whether a couple are married or not.
If two people are commited and in love then they will last the distance. Married or not it will make no difference and nor should it. I wouldnt want to stay in a relationship that had turned sour or loveless simply because I was married.
I dont think my children see any difference since we got married because they've always had two commited, happy, in love parents - married or not. And there is certainly nothing unusual in unmarried parents, single parent families, step families, married once/twice/three times, children to different dads. In fact - my children are probably in the minority with once married parents in a long term relationship - so half or step siblings etc! It's the way of the world nowadays and I think the home situation being a loving and happy one is the most important thing.

Bargain_Rzl

Pee wrote: »

I'm thinking a seven year warming up period from engagement to marriage - or maybe two years - might also help in reducing the divorce rate.

:eek: Seven years - are you insane?

What if you don't believe in sex before marriage? Or what if you are adamant that you will not have children before marriage (i.e. you're with the partner you want to be with long-term, and want to marry them at some stage but would bring the plans forward in the event of an accidental pregnancy)?

What if you don't want to have children outside of marriage, but you meet "the one" when you're say 35? I'm 31, no long-term relationship on the horizon but I've always said that if I found the right person for marriage and children then that's what I would do. If I met somebody tomorrow, and got engaged to them a year later, I'd be pushing 40 before I was married and able to start TTC.

Think of the pressure that would put on a relationship...

Dinah93

Bargain_Rzl wrote: »

Does that make a difference in this day and age? Personally I wouldn't choose to have children outside of marriage, but is there still a stigma attached (in our largely secular society) to being born out of wedlock? A stigma, that is, which results in negative attitudes being displayed towards the child (rather than the parents whose choice it was)?

It does make a difference to the child from a legal point of view. If the parents are not married the father does not have equal rights to his child. If a baby is planned and wanted by both parties I think a lot of men would pale at the idea that were the relationship to end, they wouldn't have anything like the rights to see their child they would have had if they were married. Equally they might find in many situations they do not have the right to give consent, only the mother does.

Almo

There might have been fewer divorces in times gone by, but that doesn't equate to there being more happy marriages. People have had affairs, loveless marriages etc for centuries because of society's constraints. If you want to get married go for it but do it for the right reasons, not because it's likely to make your relationship last longer (if that's a concern you probably shouldn't be doing it in the first place) or because you think it will ensure happiness.

I quite agree that people give up on relationships far too easily these days but I don't see marriage as a solution.

Pee

Bargain_Rzl wrote: »

:eek: Seven years - are you insane?

What if you don't believe in sex before marriage? Or what if you are adamant that you will not have children before marriage (i.e. you're with the partner you want to be with long-term, and want to marry them at some stage but would bring the plans forward in the event of an accidental pregnancy)?

What if you don't want to have children outside of marriage, but you meet "the one" when you're say 35? I'm 31, no long-term relationship on the horizon but I've always said that if I found the right person for marriage and children then that's what I would do. If I met somebody tomorrow, and got engaged to them a year later, I'd be pushing 40 before I was married and able to start TTC.

Think of the pressure that would put on a relationship...

Maybe two years is more workable.

Mely

RoxieW wrote: »

I'm sorry Mely but I can't help finding your posts a touch naive. Yes - perhaps in an ideal world everyone would be in happy marriages before having children and would continue to maintain a happy marriage for the rest of their lives. Unfortunately though it doesn't work out like that for a lot of people.
I think the most important thing for a child is having two happy parents - ideally together - whether they are married or not. Is it better for a child to have two miserable married parents staying together for the sake of the children - where one or both cheats or there is simply not a loving, good atmosphere in the house? Is is better for children to witness arguments, domestic violence or worse? Is that ok because a couple are sticking to their commitment and their marriage?
I believe in marriage. I agree with some of your points - I feel some people have no respect for commitment. I agree some people have too high expectations and are not prepared to compromise. But there's compromise and then there is too much compromise. If someone is in a very unhappy, loveless, perhaps destructive relationship then they should get out. That kind of home life is no good for children.
I agree some dont work at a marriage - ruining the relationship. But if it's ruined it's ruined. Being married wont keep a relationship happy. There are many ways in which people can change and things go wrong and there is no going back for a couple. Imposing a 3 mth waiting time wont rebuild trust, affection, loyalty, love...
Personally, I'm glad that I am married and I will continue to work at my relationship in order to keep it loving and happy. I'm prepared to put the work in to maintain what we have because I want my children to grow up in a HAPPY two parent household. I think that is of the most importance not whether a couple are married or not.
If two people are commited and in love then they will last the distance. Married or not it will make no difference and nor should it. I wouldnt want to stay in a relationship that had turned sour or loveless simply because I was married.
I dont think my children see any difference since we got married because they've always had two commited, happy, in love parents - married or not. And there is certainly nothing unusual in unmarried parents, single parent families, step families, married once/twice/three times, children to different dads. In fact - my children are probably in the minority with once married parents in a long term relationship - so half or step siblings etc! It's the way of the world nowadays and I think the home situation being a loving and happy one is the most important thing.

Roxie,...call me naieve if you want, i dont mind! But i can assure you im not. I have seen and been through a lot in my life, and i still stand by my previous posts.
However i do agree with a lot of what you have said, and im happy for you and your family that you have a happy and secure family life together. A lot dont,these days. As society has broken down with the loss of Christianity,and the sanctity(or non existance) of marriage. From reading this thread im amazed to see that a lot of people see marriage as 'just a piece of paper', and dont even know the meaning of marriage. Nore the importance of two parents making a public commitment to each other, and how this could affect the children when they are older(knowing their parents couldnt make this commitment to each other before they were born).

Bettyboop

Someone I know also says it's just a piece of paper and cannot commit to marriage because it costs to much. Far from it I say. These are just excuses people use because they are not sure whether they want to be with the partner they have now. Whereas being married is a lifelong commitment not always blissful and in some ways a quick exit when things go pear shaped isn't very easy. Marriage is important not just for everyone to have the same name but you are more solid as a family unit if that makes sense.

RoxieW

I hope I havent offended you Mely. It seems that there is alot of common ground within our view points.

wise_fool

Getting divorced shouldn't be made any harder or easier.

Instead, those considering getting married should have to pass a 6 stage test before moving on to the marriage stage. The tasks are:

• live together for at least 6 months
• and in that time: go on at least 1 holiday together abroad; and
• have a joint bank account; and
• go on at least 2 50 mile car journeys together with just a map; and
• go shopping together 5 times; and
• each party should attend at least 1 family gathering with the in-laws

Those that pass can get married, those that fail can't. From my own findings this test is 100% accurate so far.

Dinah93

Bit of a problem with those tests for those who are traditional/religious and won't live with someone before marriage or have sex, which does kind of put a bit of a shadow on the second one on the list too!