Getting married when you already live together, have children and the rest anyway!

ceridwen

Wondering how that talk went.....

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I only noticed a couple of articles in the paper yesterday re a live-in partner having problems when her man died because she wasnt officially married to him - in one case a grabby sister is going for everything (on the excuse of not being able to find his latest Will) and in the other the woman wasnt deemed an "official part of proceedings" at the funeral because she wasnt married to him.

This is one of the reasons why I honestly dont think its a good idea to live with someone who is perfectly free to marry you. I know if someone has come out of a previous marriage and is en route to divorce - then, in those circumstances, one might live with them if the ex-wife is dragging out the divorce for years and years. But - in normal circumstances - I dont think its wise to do so. I was only thinking myself that if someone is living with another person (rather than married to them) - that I dont quite know how to treat that person - as I dont know whether they are:
a. a flatmate - with "added extras";)
or
b. a spouse - but they just havent gone through the ceremony.

I err on the side of caution and treat them as if they were a spouse - as do most people.

I think to anyone who fears/thinks their partner fears the whole "big wedding" - and I can certainly understand that - as they come a lot "bigger/more expensive" than in my day - that maybe one way round this is to ask the boyfriend whether the two of you could just head up the local registry office/legalise it and not tell a soul. That way - you're officially "linked" in case of any problems and its easy to prove you're "next of kin" - just haul out the marriage certificate. But you havent had the hassle/expense/other peoples expectations of having a "big wedding". I can certainly understand not wanting to upset people by them missing out on invites to a wedding - but by it being a secret little one you avoid all that. You can always have a "proper wedding" later - and make out that you've been living together (rather than married) all that time.

I do know people get hurt if not invited to wedding and/or reception. I've seen in my time not being invited to a friends wedding (I only calmed down a bit when I realised no other friends had been invited either) and, on another couple of occasions, I was just asked to the reception. I dont understand these fine distinctions myself - as to who gets asked to what. To me - EVERYONE gets asked to the wedding and then EVERYONE gets asked to come to the reception afterwards (they can then decide for themselves - according to their own expectations as to how things are done/how much time they have whether to attend one/both or neither. No hurt feelings that way...)

Maybe part of the problem is that weddings are one of those times that it becomes clear what the family expectations are as to how one does things - and they are often different. I could sum up mine, as I understand it, now:
- everyone to the wedding
- everyone to the reception
- no business associates to either (its for family and friends only)
- there is to be enough (and plenty) to eat at the reception (not just posh nibbles)
- every relative under the sun gets asked - and so does every friend
(which would mean it would have to be a home-catered buffet in a church hall or the like to be affordable - but that would be accepted by pretty much everyone as okay. My wealthier relatives would just have to "bite their tongue" about that). But - so what - as most people there would have to "bite their tongue" anyway and accept that it was going to be a distinctly unconventional ceremony to what ANY of them had expected.......heh! They'd all be in for quite a surprise...(me in a medieval dress would be just the first one...)

Perhaps with a live-in boyfriend its just as well to suss out what their "automatic expectations" ARE as to how the occasion would be - to check out if there's differences and they think you want something thats much more hassle/expense than they would assume they themselves would be having IYSWIM.

lynzpower

Perhaps with a live-in boyfriend its just as well to suss out what their "automatic expectations" ARE as to how the occasion would be - to check out if there's differences and they think you want something thats much more hassle/expense than they would assume they themselves would be having IYSWIM.

What if the live in boyfreind wants the big white wedding, the stately home, the bentley, the horse drawn carriage, the champers, the fireworks, the jazz band, the official toastmaster, black tie for all and a holiday of a lifetime for the honeies

What if he says, well only do it the once why not do it "properly". Its not just women who want the merangue day

It not just a day of joining yourselves legally its being wrapped in fairytale true love that most of us really want out of our BIG day.

ceridwen

I've been thinking on further about this thread - giving my braincells some exercise here:D

I was thinking "well - I treat living-together couples as if they are married" - but then thinking "what would I do if I were officialdom of some description and needed proof as to who was next of kin?". So - whether I was healthcare provider type officialdom or legal type officialdom or whichever type of "official" position I was in - I would have to take the reverse position and not treat them as if they were married unless they actually were. How on earth would I know if they were flatmates with added extras or husband/wife minus the ceremony? In the absence of a wedding certificate - then, for official purposes, I would have to treat them as flatmates. Look at it this way - what official wants to sit down and virtually "hold a court of law and pass judgement on all available evidence" - far too time-consuming. They just want it quick and simple - "wedding certificate - that'll do nicely".

So - certainly if one wants to have/already does have children by a man then you need to be able to prove that he's officially (as well as biologically) the father. From other POV's as well it may be necessary for one of you to be able to prove that they are the "next of kin" of the other one and entitled to make decisions/be considered as a married couple - I'm just thinking the swine flu epidemic for instance as the most obvious current example.

So - I really do think for a woman in a living-together situation its wisest to get the situation clarified as to whether he regards her as a "wife" or no and, if so, just say you're not bothered about having a Big Day - just making it legal in case of need. Maybe you'll find he's getting out his diary and pencilling in a suitable date - maybe you wont get the answer you're hoping for. Maybe you'll find he wants a Big Day too - maybe he wants it dead simple/easy/basic - who knows? But - either way - at least you'll know where you stand - and save all that angst worrying just where you stand.

miserly_mum

[QUOTE=lynzpower;23705771

It not just a day of joining yourselves legally its being wrapped in fairytale true love that most of us really want out of our BIG day.[/QUOTE]


I agree with Lynz...the pennypinching old sod part of me says spending thousands of pounds on one day is madness and it would be more sensible to sneak off and do it on our own.

However the other side of me says buggar the expense, i'm marrying the man I love and I want to celebrate that with my nearest and dearest.

I want to be standing there looking lovely in a beautiful dress. I want the nice wedding cars. I want to see the OH and our boys in matching suits and waistcoats.

I'll bargain hunt till i'm blue in the face so we can afford to have all the trimmings without breaking the bank, but I really do want the trimmings.

ceridwen

lynzpower wrote: »

What if the live in boyfreind wants the big white wedding, the stately home, the bentley, the horse drawn carriage, the champers, the fireworks, the jazz band, the official toastmaster, black tie for all and a holiday of a lifetime for the honeies

What if he says, well only do it the once why not do it "properly". Its not just women who want the merangue day

It not just a day of joining yourselves legally its being wrapped in fairytale true love that most of us really want out of our BIG day.

People often have very different expectations/assumptions about important issues in life - no judgement calls being made here. Its a question of "each to their own - unless they try and force someone else into doing things the way they want about an important issue - in which case: they're in the wrong Big Time".

Some people will regard a "meringue day" as the only way to "do it properly" - some would regard it very differently. Each to their own. The important thing is for both partners to have the same assumptions/expectations - or be able to work out a compromise if they dont.

I have often argued that the single biggest necessity for a relationship (of any description) to work out is sharing the same set of values (whatever they are).

gorgeous_gwen

Hmm that did not go well!

Asked boyf about what he said about the hassle and expense of getting married, was that how he felt really and he went mad!

He said he didn't know what I wanted from him, said again that nothing would actually change after the actual wedding as everything would go on as it does now, then started asking me again about why I wanted to get married, and jumped on us all having different names (DS has a different surname to baby, then me and boyf have our own names) and said that if I'm talking about us as a couple and it being recognised in the eyes of the law then it was stupid if I didn't even know if I wanted to take his name (something we talked about a while ago.)

That ended that conversation!

Think it's probably best now to leave the subject for a while, it's obviously quite volatile for both of us and it's not meant to be like that I know I'll stew over it but I might wait until he brings it up- to be honest I'm sick of thinking about it now

lynzpower

Ok . Ill say it.

Gwen, I get the sense he doesnt really want to marry you.

If hes jumping on you asking why you are going on about it all the time/ why is it important to you/ whats the big deal/ why are you hassling/ whats wrong with things now/ ( I get the sense this is the way the convs are going.

Maybe he finds your behaviour ( not you, most women are like this, ME INCLUDED!) a bit controlling. Even someone as levelheaded as me with tighness to boot, can turn into bridezilla, and to be honest I dont even want it that badly.

I worry that you are practically begging him to marry you and he cant say no. maybehe says yes because he wants to placate you.

But ultimately if he doesnt"get it" then your nagging/ encouragement will only be seen as bridezilla
I hope im wrong but seen many freinds go down this phsycho road .

If youask "why wont he marry me" you should have a good range of reasons

1) not enough money
2) unstable job & worried aboutthat
3) illness/ bereavement some other decent family reason
4) does not believe he wants to be tied down
5) does not want to marry you personally, but may wish to marry someone else.

If anything Id be talking about it more ( ie a 2 way conversation) to work out whether this relationship is really going theway you wantit to.

I really hope im wrong here.

Hugs xx

Bogof_Babe

I agree with Lynz, his reaction is a bit of a giveaway about how he actually feels about the prospect of marrying (at this point lets assume that applies to you or anyone else). Instead of calmly discussing the issues he has, he gets angry and goes on the defensive. This rings alarm bells to me.

Perhaps Gwen it is time to put the idea into his head that things might not continue as they are indefinitely. Given your username, unless you are being ironic, I expect you would not have too much trouble in finding someone who doesn't have the hang-ups that your b/f seems to have.

I'd also be asking myself if I really loved him, or has he just become a habit. I'd hate to live with someone who was so cavalier about my feelings, and it would be a deal breaker eventually.

miserly_mum

Sadly I have to admit I agree with Lynz , it really doesn't sound like he wants to get married.

It's ok him talking about marriage generally in a lovely dovey moment but now you've put him on the spot he's bricking it.

Glasgowkiss84

Hi Gwen,

I have been following your thread and i'm sorry you got such a negative reaction

It does sound like your BF does not want to get married. Only you can decide if that applies to you or just in general.

I think you need to decide if you can be happy with him, not getting married.

It's a discussion my BF and I have had... and that's the difference it was a discussion! He has never shouted at me regarding it. We have both spoken of what we envisage our wedding being like in some detail (we both would like to elope, have an amazing honeymoon, throw big party on return etc...).
We have even been casually browsing engagement rings in the jewellers when out and about.

I've actually said to him we (he lol) should really make a decision as if he doesn't want to get married (ie to me) then we should just finish. We have been together 5 years, bought our house together within a year of meeting... and my view is if he doesn't know he wants to marry me after all this time then we aren't meant to be!

That's just my opinion,

Hugs