Getting married when you already live together, have children and the rest anyway!

ceridwen

Bogof_Babe wrote: »

Excellent post #188 KatP, exactly says how I see it myself.

This thread has been a bit of an eye-opener, as MSE has had many such discussions, but from the angle of live-ins who say they don't want to get married, don't feel the need, see the point etc. I think this is the first thread where several women in this situation have actually admitted that they would like the security of a ring on their finger.

I've always suspected that even those in the other camp secretly wish their partner would pop the question, but they brave it out as it doesn't seem likely to happen.

Bogof - with you on that one....I've often wondered that one. Hence back to thinking that one only provides two options - either:
- dating
OR
- marrying

and no halfway house option unless marriage is impossible for the time being because of how long a divorce from an ex is taking...

To me personally - I like a bit of security and I just wouldnt want to waste "emotional energy" wondering what the situation is....I want to KNOW what the situation is. I think its a pointless waste of time to try and change someone else's viewpoint about anything at all major - goodness knows I've tried to enough over the years.....over a variety of matters. I've long since come to the conclusion that people are only open to persuasion to change their viewpoints over something very minor like what to eat or what to wear. As regards the major stuff - I've wasted a lot of breath trying over the years. Now I just devote my energies to seeing whether we think the same way as each other in the first place.....much less time and energy-consuming....

I think the best thing is for oneself personally to sit down and work out what your own values/ideas about life are personally - realize that there will be others with HUGELY different ones and some with just slightly divergent ones - and then just try and work out just which are the people with similar enough ideas to "make a match".

I honestly think its a good idea for people to sit down and work out a personal checklist of VIP points about life as far as they are concerned and then "run a check" against potential "significant others" to see how well they "fit" with that...including how "official" or otherwise that person expects their "lifetime" relationships to be.

Bogof_Babe

Another aspect that I don't think has been touched on yet is that of his lack of possessive feelings about Gwen. You know how men are very possessive about their cars, their football team, even their mates - well this generally extends to their "significant other" too. If they are typical, and have met the woman of their dreams, you'd expect them to go to any lengths to show the world that she is "taken".

Does he not realise that he is in cloud cuckoo land if he thinks that just having his feet under the table and his shoes under the divan means she feels spoken for? I wonder how he'd feel if she said she was meeting another bloke for a drink. Well officially there's no earthly reason why she shouldn't.

ceridwen

Bogof_Babe wrote: »

Another aspect that I don't think has been touched on yet is that of his lack of possessive feelings about Gwen. You know how men are very possessive about their cars, their football team, even their mates - well this generally extends to their "significant other" too. If they are typical, and have met the woman of their dreams, you'd expect them to go to any lengths to show the world that she is "taken".

Does he not realise that he is in cloud cuckoo land if he thinks that just having his feet under the table and his shoes under the divan means she feels spoken for? I wonder how he'd feel if she said she was meeting another bloke for a drink. Well officially there's no earthly reason why she shouldn't.

You're right on that one Bogof...a very good thought there. It sounds odd/awful in one way - marked as "my territory - hands off" - but there is a very valid point there nevertheless.....

...and its not just men...women can be very similar....:D

Certainly...I'm well aware that if I regard someTHING as "my territory" - then I make it quite plain...I'm sure most of us do:D - so thats likely to include "major" level relationships as well for people I would have thought....

It DOES sound sorta "possessive" in one sense - but hey we're "human" and the vast majority of us "mark out" what and WHO we regard as "ours" - in case anyone else gets any ideas...no matter how "liberal" our ideas are....(er...yep...that means me too...yer archetypal "liberal"...but I do it too....I have to be honest.....)

gorgeous_gwen

Bogof_Babe wrote: »

I think in your heart of hearts you know you are just making excuses for him now. Everything you've told us indicates that he has no intention of ever taking the marriage plunge, and he is now starting to squirm because he feels he is being pushed into a corner. If he wanted to marry, he would at least be amenable to giving some sort of commitment.

I really wouldn't hold your breath on this one. He will have to have a complete about face in his attitude before any progress is made, and from where I'm observing that seems less likely than me winning the lottery.

Would you stay with him if he categorically told you that he had no intention of marrying you? It's your own feelings and options you need to be sorting out now.

I really wouldn't waste my time making excuses- I don't think it achieves anything. I wasn't trying to work out reasons why he really does and I should just stay put but saying I have been utterly confused as to why he would appear to want to get married then appear not later on

We did speak briefly earlier and thus continues the living in a world of his own, it's funny because here I am talking about it, I've been trying to talk to him about it, and he really is near-on clueless, it's like we have a conversation about important stuff, which for me I remember, but he has to be reminded about and we may as well have not had!

After he asked and was reminded about our conversation where he said what he said (nothing would change after etc), he said he didn't see the point of thinking about something which wasn't going to happen for a few years- which he's said before- and when he was wanting to know why I was so bothered by all of this, and one of the things I mentioned was how he avoided setting a date even when I'd asked him directly, he randomly brought up some date sarcastically and I just shrugged and said we'd better talk about it later (this was all during the chaos of making tea with kids running round us and baby chatting at us )

I know you offered some advice ceridwen about what plans to make but in the immediate short-term I don't know what to do/say/how to act/feel. Do we talk about it again later? I'm sick of planning talks. But I can't not think about it. Even he said what I said earlier about it should be a happy thing to think about- he said when I have talked about it I'm always really negative- but it's like he doesn't remember any of the other stuff where I've been trying to chat about dates, venues and all that!:mad:

ceridwen

Hi Gwen

A dilemma and a half that you're in...and I honestly dont think this is coming over as a very "fair" situation...gawd...you've got children together (make that plural).......

I've not been in that position personally....so what do I know? Errrrm....I guess someone who is/has been in that situation will come along shortly.....so its just me wondering (off the top of my head) whether a letter to him explaining EXACTLY how you think and feel about this might be a possibility.....I really am just wondering off the top of my head on that one.....as in "write the letter....think about it....amend it....give it a couple of weeks sleeping on it...and THEN give it to him" and just go out/away and leave it with him to think about/sleep on/etc for a couple of weeks. That way I guess he cant think you are just "venting" - you have obviously very carefully considered EXACTLY what you think/feel/want - and then the "ball is in his court".

Just my two-pennorth...I dont know what others think......

Bogof_Babe

Tbh I don't think you are choosing the right moments to have these chats. In the middle of cooking tea, dealing with the children etc., is about the worst time, as you said yourself. It would be better once the kids are in bed and you have time to sit down with a bottle of wine, turn the TV off and start really talking. I don't think he realises that you actually need a "cards on the table" talk, which is why he keeps fobbing you off.

Also, the bit about him suggesting a date "sarcastically" and you just said you'd better talk about it again - well to me that was your opportunity to say something like "at last!", and tell him you'll start looking round for a venue. He can hardly back down then, even if he didn't really mean it. If he panics, tell him he shouldn't say something he doesn't mean, knowing how important it is to you.

ceridwen

Well...nope...I dont think you are choosing your moment for these chats either....hence my suggestion of a letter....as in...its very obvious you have given a great deal of careful consideration to what you think/feel and you have then left it with him to respond in like manner (rather than coming out with whatever comment/emotion comes up first...hes having it made plain to him that you want an equally considered response back). After all - we are talking rest of your lives territory one way or the other...ie years and years...hence the careful consideration on both sides.

3under3

Hi Gwen, I've been reading your thread for the last few days. I was wondering how you would feel if during the heat of discussion he agreed to set a date. I know if it was me I would feel resentful and perhaps nagged/bullied into setting a date which had been beyond my control almost..

I remember reading a book years ago called Surrended Single. The author was saying something along the lines that going on to a man about proposing will almost push him further away. It's best to to drop the subject and concentrate on being a fabulous partner - within a month or two a proposal is sure to happen... Now I don't know if it's true or not but you are not getting the proposal you want at the moment - maybe it's time to be a bit more stragegic and try a Plan B?

Mrs_Ryan

Just a quick post to say thank you so much everyone - I was in tears all over again at how lovely you all were!!

Still looking for a job, unfortunately there's few enough jobs to be had in the North East and my area of work is quite specialised so it may be difficult. But Im not giving up that easily!!!

gorgeous_gwen

Well it seems I didn't have to worry about what to do next as he took that out of my hands!

After kids were in bed, he sat down with me asking if I was ok, gave me a cuddle and said that we would have to look at sorting some things out for the wedding. I'm not sure if I should have jumped for joy- I got the impression he was expecting something similar!- but he said I didn't look happy and what was wrong?

We then had an in-depth talk about everything. I put forward (again!) everything I've said here and I had to bite my tongue when he said he couldn't know how I was feeling if I didn't tell him... OH MY GOD I HAVE TOLD YOU OVER AND OVER BUT YOU HAVEN'T LISTENED TO ME!!!:mad:

Well he insisted I'd hardly said anything, hardly spoken about it at all apart from asking him about venues once where we sat down and looked through some online and as we spoke I got the distinct impression that what has evolved here is some bizarre situation where yes he does want to get married, but for whatever reason he really didn't realise how upset I'd gotten and how much of a big deal it was to me even though this is what I've been trying to communicate to him.

He said again because I said this when I was pregnant with our baby, that just because he doesn't talk about things, it doesn't mean he doesn't think about them or isn't bothered. He's doing that typical male thing where he's being practical and solution-based- he said he didn't see any point about thinking about it now if we weren't going to get married for a few years, and said he'd off his own back start thinking about planning stuff a year beforehand. Thus it's not on his mind. Whereas I wanted to talk about things, to get excited together, not necessarily even plan stuff but talk about possibilities, have a date in mind. I said it was on my mind so much recently and he said he genuinely hadn't realised.

I'm going to have some time free of mulling it over now. To be honest it's gotten to be a bit of a 'chore' to think about and the last thing I want is to be going on about it to him all the time. The thing is, for whatever reason I just feel a bit empty at the moment. I do actually believe that he does want to get married but I don't think I'm going to have someone who wants to talk about it, plan things together, and I know loads of men are like that but it makes me feel a bit sad!