Getting married when you already live together, have children and the rest anyway!

ceridwen

Hmmm....well can I introduce one thought and one suggestion?

The thought is that the wedding is just one day out of a lifetime - but a marriage is for the rest of that lifetime (ie 30/40/however many years). The marriage is the most important bit out of that equation.

Re the suggestion: well...theres another way of looking at the organising of the wedding. I guess you are looking at it the way most people would - ie its us two organising it and I want him to play an equal role in organising/enthusing/etc. But - if you were to "rope in" the whole community of relatives/friends into the organising and enthusing about it - then 50% of that doesnt "fall to O.H." IYSWIM.

I'm just thinking what I personally would have done if I'd ever got married - so welcome to take a leaf outa what would have been "my book". I would have told everyone that everyone was welcome to ceremony and/or the "do" afterwards.

I would have said - no wedding presents please - we dont want them. But what we DO want is everyone "pitching in" with help towards organising this, eg:
- their "signature dish" of food for the reception (say quantities for 10? of a hot savoury dish or a cold savoury dish or a pudding)
OR
- some alcohol for the reception
OR
- some live music for the reception
OR
- doing the photography for the day
OR
- decorating the venue with flowers from their garden

that sorta thing.....I guess you get the drift.

That way - lots of people have helped organise the day/been all excited with you about the day and (a bonus in these recessionary times) no-one has felt pressurised into spending tens of £s/hundreds of £s/thousands of £s (delete as applicable - depending on whether they are friends/relatives/parents) on a present they maybe cant afford.

Hence my earlier comments about I'd hope for change from £1,000 for the day....maybe make that £2,000..(as obviously I would provide a certain basic amount of the food myself).

That may be the way to proceed....just my twopennorth...

miserly_mum

I think what he has just done is known as side-lining?

He's thought about how he can stop you pressing him to name the day.

By reassuring you that yes you will get married but in a few years (how many is a few in his book?) and that he doesn't want to talk about it until a year before is his way of hopefully shutting you up about the whole subject.

It also gives him a year or two to come up with another good excuse not to tie the knot

If he genuinely wanted to wait a couple of years then whats to stop him proposing now? I'm sure you'd be happy to wait a couple of years with a proposal and an engagement ring?

Katie-Kat-Kins

Bogof_Babe wrote: »

Excellent post #188 KatP, exactly says how I see it myself.

This thread has been a bit of an eye-opener, as MSE has had many such discussions, but from the angle of live-ins who say they don't want to get married, don't feel the need, see the point etc. I think this is the first thread where several women in this situation have actually admitted that they would like the security of a ring on their finger.

I've always suspected that even those in the other camp secretly wish their partner would pop the question, but they brave it out as it doesn't seem likely to happen.

I agree I think a lot of the "it is only a piece of paper" brigade are just covering and would really love to marry.

Personally I did live with my husband before we married but we discussed our feelings, and intentions clearly beforehand so we both knew where we stood rather than drifting into co-habiting. We were both clear that the long term plan all being well would be to get married. I think that is often what is missing, relationships go from dating to co-habiting to having children and no one ever discusses things or makes and decisions it is all drift.

Bogof_Babe

Sorry Gwen but I agree with Miserly Mum. What is it with this "a few years" business? If you both want to do it "properly", i.e. the full works, even for say 18 months ahead you'd need to be starting to make certain bookings now.

He's got the result he wanted then, no proper commitment and no more pressure.

Don't blame you being fed up with thinking about it now, you've spent a lot of emotional energy, and writing it on here has probably emphasised the futility of it. Yes do give it a break now, have some fun together (that in itself will be an indication of how committed he is, as having fun can be hard work when there's kids involved!) and see how the land lies by Christmas. If you don't get an engagement ring in your presents, I'd take that as a strong message that it has all gone in one ear and out the other.

Clearly you can't go on like this, it's time to make or break. Or accept that you will remain cohabitees for the foreseeable future.

Katie-Kat-Kins

Most venues will accept bookings several years in advance, so if he genuinely wants to get married but wants time to save up you can still set a date and secure a booking. But I don't think that is the case.

I really think you need to stop beating round the bush with him and get to the point.

Sit down and have a really serious think about why you want to get married, it is about more than having the same name, if that is all that bothers you then you can change your name. Once you are sure of your reasons consider whether you are sure he is the man you want to marry.

Then sit him down when there are no distractions and you have plenty of time. Maybe on a weekend when someone else can keep an eye on the kids. Tell him then that you have been thinking very carefully and are sure that if your relationship is to continue you want to get married. Give him your reasons and ask him whether he wants to marry you.

Be prepared for what your response will be if you are met with a flat no.

If he does want to marry you, say to him well in that case can we set a date and actually plan the wedding.

If he procrastinates or avoids the issue you need to challenge him. Tell him that maybe in a few years isn't good enough. You need to know what his objections are to putting things in progress straightaway or putting a timescale on it.

Have a few options in your head maybe;
1. He is happy to get married but feels rushed/needs more time. Can you set a date maybe two or three years ahead and plan slowly toward that? Can you say that he will propose and buy a ring by a date and that you will set a date for the wedding then.
2. He is worried about cost/nervous about a big wedding/doesn't like the idea of weddings. Can you agree a small ceremony with minimal guests or to elope or to fund a small wedding with minimal input from him.
3. He doesn't see the point in getting married/doesn't think things will change. You need to do a sales job, explain the benefits for you both and hear his responses. If he has genuine objections you may not be able to persuade him to change his mind but if he just doesn't think it makes a difference will he marry because it is important to you and he is ambivalent? If so you may have to accept you won't get a big proposal and will have to plant hings yourself.

You also need to decide what you will do if he doesn't want to marry, can the relationship survive? Will you be able to co-habit forever more? Can you come to a workable compromise.

You can't live in this sort of limbo forever. If it is important to you your OH should see this and should want to make you happy by reaching a mutually agreeable compromise. If he isn't willing to do so then maybe he isn't the right man, or maybe he is secretly hoping that you will end it because he is a coward.

gorgeous_gwen

Thankyou for the thoughts everyone, it is really lovely to have people offer opinions, whatever they may be

I texed him today when he was at work to say that after our discussions about marriage, I think it best that we go back to how we were before, pre-"deciding we'll get married" as it seemed less complicated then and what did he think? Not for the purposes of having a conversation via text but as a thinking point for him iyswim.

He replied saying he'll "never understand how I think, ever!"

If I'm being honest I'm hoping he'll think, "b*llocks what have I done?" and rush out to get a ring or something else to show he is interested. He knows I do want to get married and I can thus gauge how he feels in a place where he doesn't say or do anything because he feels pressured or because he feels he should, but because he wants to. I can equally gauge if he DOESN'T do anything either but have a timeframe for who long I can wait.

ceridwen

I see where you're coming from Gwen on what you said to him now and why - but...errr...I have to say that, if I were him, I'd now be feeling more than a little confused....

I've heard men comment before now that they wish women would say things straight out - rather than beat around the bush. I guess that boils down to there seem to be two main ways of thinking:
- from a basis of logic (traditionally thought of as the male way of thinking)
- from a basis of emotion (traditionally thought of as the female way of thinking).

I just have this sneaky feeling here that - in the case of you two - this may be what is happening here. You are coming at things from the basis of an emotional way of thinking and he is coming at things from the basis of a logical way of thinking.

No value judgements here - thats just how things are. But...it would be good to try and find some way to "meet in the middle" as to how you both approach things...

Dinah93

I'm with Ceridwen. Have you ever stopped to look at what you are doing and thought 'it shouldn't be this complicated'. My OH says every day how he can't wait until I'm his wife, I've seen a couple of friends so desperate for a ring, giving ultimatums or getting themselves depressed that 4 years later hes still not doing anything, and its awful because their partners seem backed into a corner but still not giving them what they want, which says it all to me. You need to come to a clear place as a couple, no games, just a simple, honest talk and come to a conclusion.

miserly_mum

I agree with ceridwen about giving mixed signals.If we go by what Gwen has told us then we can see that her OH doesn't respond well to straight talking. He either gets angry or conveniently "forgets" having the conversation in the first place.

Dinah I totally agree that things in a realtionship shouldn't be that complicated. I get the feeling that deep down Gwen knows that all too well.

It's all well and good having that open, honest simple ,talk .....but only if you have a fairly good idea that the other persons answers will be the ones you want to hear. In Gwen's case i'm not fully convinced that will be the case and I don't think she is either.

From her OH's point of view if he doesn't want to get married ( Gwen or anyone else)then that is his personal choice and doesn't make him the bad guy. I wouldn't marry anyone I didn't want to just to make THEM happy if it wasn't what I really wanted either.

What does make him the bad guy is not being totally honest with Gwen as to wether they will get married or not. If it's never going to happen then he needs to just tell her. That's not easy if he knows that saying it might be the make or break point in their relationship

Bogof_Babe

Gwen I read your post last night about the text, and I must admit I was lost for words. I actually felt rather sorry for the guy. Every time he thinks some sort of harmony has been restored, you seem to stir it all up again, and it never seems to be at an appropriate time.

Put yourself in his position, receiving that text out of the blue while he's at work. It's hardly surprising his reaction was that he doesn't understand you. I think you were lucky to get away with just that, tbh.

I realise it isn't easy with children and busy lives, but next time you want to even touch on the subject of marriage, you really do need to engineer an opportunity where you are both calm, relaxed and undisturbed. The way it is being handled at the moment is like a pesky housefly that keeps buzzing around, and every time it settles someone stirs it up again. It drives you mad in the end.

I don't expect any approval for this post, and I know it is a bit harsh, but from an outsider's point of view I have to say you could be handling this a lot better. You want him to be madly in love with you, and decide he can't contemplate life without you, not be constantly tensed up for the next round of "when will you marry me?".