Shocked - Meeting at School

andyrules

poet123 wrote: »

Most schools willl seek medical advice in such cases to cover themselves,the injuries do not have to be severe for this to happen. I think the words "sent to hospital" may be misleading and possibly an exaggeration of the extent of the injuries.

At this age children fight,gender is irrelevant to them,so to tar the child with the same intent as a wife beater, is to misunderstand the development of children of that age.

The OP seemed to me to be looking at all angles,not necessarily making excuses for her child. In my experience it is the parents who react loudest to this sort of incident with others, who react least when their own child is involved. Those who are most judgemental are the ones who look for excuses for their own children.

Yes,he was very wrong,yes,he should be punished,yes,he needs to reflect deeply on his actions,yes,he should apologise and mean it,yes,he needs monitoring.

No,imo he does not need counselling,No, he does not need removing from the school,no,this incident is not indicative of a propensity to violence which will escalate and mean he is a canddiate for heinous crimes.

A sense of proportion is needed,and the ability to see past the "crime" and find a way forward for both parties.

Well thank goodness for a modicum of sense! There have been a lot of questions asked that the op hasn't been back to answer yet - until then we can but speculate.

Bullying is a word that is often overused - however, it is also a fact that it is notoriously difficult for schools to deal with and many are worse than useless at either spotting it or taking action. The op states he was bullied but offers no details. The boy may or may not have been provoked beyond endurance.

I would like to know where his friends were - does he even have any? It is strange that no-one witnessed what could have been an incident that lasted for a minute or two.

The injuries sustained by the girl are significant, because the hospital trip may well have been purely precautionary. If this was the case, then the girl won't be the first to sustain a kick, punch, elbow, shove etc, generally without more than a quick admonishment from the staff on duty. Not condoning it, but maybe some people should visit a playground I have taught many little girls for whom 'butter wouldn't melt', however their malice and spite would take your breath away.

I think the school needs to seriously look at what is happening and do some close monitoring and remedial work here.

Stephb1986_2

They had Physcoligists (sp) on me they just chatted !!!!!! to be honest thought I was dyslexic which im not and then thought I had this that and the other made me do stupid puzzles that a monkey could do! They pryed into stuff that wasn't even their business. Noted absolutly everything I said even if I had a fart. It's like Big Brother even the teachers noted down every little movement I did like " Steph was asked something in class and ignored the teacher" I mean how bloody pathetic I was 8 years old FGS!!!

Physcologists (sp) are just bloody nosey people who have nothing else better to do. Soon enough there will be too many of them and too many coucellors too. Sorry but that is how I feel.

Damzel_In_Distress

Gingham_Ribbon wrote: »

I agree with Poet. I don't believe counselling is suitable for children unless there are SERIOUS and sustained problems. I remember a friend saying he never got over being sent to counselling by his parents at 4 years old. He always felt he was different as a result.

What would you class as serious and sustained?

The OP has said her son has had behaviour problems with attention and bad behaviour all his life-so is that not sustained?

He has attacked a little girl after struggling for "attention" at school as the OP has said he was - so is that not serious?

YorkiePud_3

Well if I was the mother of that girl, I would be running off copies of letters to other parents at the school telling them what happened and to tell their children to watch for this boy. In fact, I would be so bl**dy mad, upset and shocked at what he had done, I would be writing to the paper too ... when you are a parent whose child has been hurt in this way, you need to know something is being done.
I would also be writing to the school demanding the suspension of the boy.

Believe me, if my child was hurt by another and they turned up on my doorstep with a sorry note and some flowers, you would not want to know what I would do with them ... you cannot teach kids that a little note and a contrived "sorry" will make right any wrongs they do.

He hit the girl, she hit him back. A bit of fisticuffs usually ends up in a cooling down and then they might forget their problem with each other or avoid each other ... but while this boy was on the floor he repeatedly kicked this girl.

That's the bit that got me ... it didn't just end with a bit of pushy/pully and a few slaps ...

Trouble happens in playgrounds, but the action of repeatedly kicking someone is what flares the red warning light for me ... this boy lost control. For an amount of time.
He didn't see red and lash out ... he repeatedly lashed out with his foot ... nasty, very nasty.

Parents cannot absorb the blame and think ooohh, it must be something we have done ... nor can they think a psychiatrist is a quick fix because at that age, kids don't fully take in what is being said/talked about ... they don't realise the full seriousness. A chat with a psychiatrist is hardly the way to say you do NOT ever do that again ...

At that age, the only way a child seems to fully grasp the difference between good behaviour and bad behavior is by being deprived of the things they enjoy.
By that, I am not saying lock him in his room and feed him bread and dripping for a month ... I mean you have to "speak to him on a level he understands" ... so that means no pc, no telly ... that kind of thing ... it is only by feeling deprived in that way that it will really sink in.
At that age, things are either bad or good ... they don't understand all the self-analysis and full meaning of talking things through.

Kids don't always do things for a reason ... so how can he tell a psychiatrist WHY he did it when he probably doesn't realise himself.

I hope to God something can be sorted out before he turns into a real little menace.

andyrules

Damzel_In_Distress wrote: »

What would you class as serious and sustained?

The OP has said her son has had behaviour problems with attention and bad behaviour all his life-so is that not sustained?

He has attacked a little girl after struggling for "attention" at school as the OP has said he was - so is that not serious?

Good Lord, every class has an attention seeker! And the boy didn't 'attack' as in 'seek the girl out to deliberately injure', he retaliated in a wrong and inappropriate, but not unusual for a frustrated 7 year old, way. As I have said, we don't have all the details on here so are making assumptions.

I do wonder if people realise how many squabbles, pushes etc go on every playtime in every school.

I agree with gingham, let's not brand him with counselling just yet;)

Steph - it's interesting that you remember this so clearly from 8 years old.

poet123

YorkiePud wrote: »

Well if I was the mother of that girl, I would be running off copies of letters to other parents at the school telling them what happened and to tell their children to watch for this boy. In fact, I would be so bl**dy mad, upset and shocked at what he had done, I would be writing to the paper too ... when you are a parent whose child has been hurt in this way, you need to know something is being done.
And this kind of action would helpthe situation how vigilante action by parents against a 7 year old is unpleasant and solves nothing.


Believe me, if my child was hurt by another and they turned up on my doorstep with a sorry note and some flowers, you would not want to know what I would do with them ... you cannot teach kids that a little note and a contrived "sorry" will make right any wrongs they do.

I agree,but surely if sincere,it is a good thing to do,not as anything other than a gesture. I also find it interesting that you seem to advocate violence yourself but cannot understand how a child could lash out.

He hit the girl, she hit him back. A bit of fisticuffs usually ends up in a cooling down and then they might forget their problem with each other or avoid each other ... but while this boy was on the floor he repeatedly kicked this girl.

Kicking from the floor,means arms and legs flailing, as in tantrum mode,I would suspect most kicks did not hit their target. He was out of control,but many adults reach this stage in sports for example when fights break out on a pitch. Are the actions of a 7 year old so different? or worse?

That's the bit that got me ... it didn't just end with a bit of pushy/pully and a few slaps ...

Trouble happens in playgrounds, but the action of repeatedly kicking someone is what flares the red warning light for me ... this boy lost control. For an amount of time.
He didn't see red and lash out ... he repeatedly lashed out with his foot ... nasty, very nasty.

Parents cannot absorb the blame and think ooohh, it must be something we have done ... nor can they think a psychiatrist is a quick fix because at that age, kids don't fully take in what is being said/talked about ... they don't realise the full seriousness. A chat with a psychiatrist is hardly the way to say you do NOT ever do that again ...

At that age, the only way a child seems to fully grasp the difference between good behaviour and bad behavior is by being deprived of the things they enjoy.
By that, I am not saying lock him in his room and feed him bread and dripping for a month ... I mean you have to "speak to him on a level he understands" ... so that means no pc, no telly ... that kind of thing ... it is only by feeling deprived in that way that it will really sink in.
At that age, things are either bad or good ... they don't understand all the self-analysis and full meaning of talking things through.

Kids don't always do things for a reason ... so how can he tell a psychiatrist WHY he did it when he probably doesn't realise himself.

I hope to God something can be sorted out before he turns into a real little menace.

The way to achieve that aim is not by taking any of the revenge measures you outline,but via the talking,reasoning,punishment route. The two avenues cannot co exist.

mrcow

YorkiePud wrote: »

Believe me, if my child was hurt by another and they turned up on my doorstep with a sorry note and some flowers, you would not want to know what I would do with them ... you cannot teach kids that a little note and a contrived "sorry" will make right any wrongs they do.

I disagree.

My son (7) was the victim of an incident just before Christmas with a boy who is well known to be unable to control his aggressive behaviour.

If you'd seen the state of my son's face you would have gawped. His lips looked like he done a round with Tyson, he now has a permanently chipped adult front tooth and his whole face was deformed, puffed and discoloured.

I obviously was in with the Head within the hour and (this time I told myself) trusted the school to deal with it. I was still however absolutely livid.

The boy in question was told to apologise to my son and did so via a letter. Being only aged 7, it didn't say that much, but on reading it, I could see it was sincere, and remorseful and it did really help.......both my son who felt that he'd received the apology that he deserved, and me, as reading this 7 year old kid's letter I realised that we're just talking about small kids here who don't always do what's right (none of us are without fault) and stuff does happen (he wouldn't normally pick on my son, just a case of wrong place/wrong time I think).

I agree, if the mother had turned up on my doorstep I would have given them both an earful. (In fact my first reaction on seeing him was to call her to tellher what I thought but luckily she wasn't in as I think it would have been a conversation i would have lived to regret). But getting the letter did help to calm the situation and help to put it behind us.

leiela

Ok i feel the need to defend my son here.

my son has naughtie stints, and we are dealing with the school to handle his behaviour and the school are very very pleased with his progress, infact the report card he got from before christmas was brilliant and he was actually the 4th child in his class to fill in their startchart for the year (they get star's for good behavior).

HOWEVER .. when i say naughtieness what i mean is that he's the class clown, he loves attention ... naughty behaviour involves harmless bits of fun that AT home do not cause a problem, however in a school enviorement are disruptive, things like refusing to read his reading book or reading it purposly wrong, making up the story as he go's along, because the longer he can draw it out the longer the teacher has to spend with him. (not good when a teacher has to listen to a whole class but hardly murder'er material)

Infact at school he is VERY VERY popular with the teachers because he's a cheeky lovable rogue, his current teacher in dicussions with her today discribed him as the "bart simpson type" everyone knows him as he keeps everyone amused but he hasn't go a cruel bone in his body and would give another child his last toy if he thought they didn't have any of thier own.

He is not normal violent or distructive ... EVER!!! this is a single one off incident and THAT is why it shocked me, if this type of thing had been comman do you really think i'd be asking for advice?? i would probabally shrug my shoulders and sigh *oh well not again* This is SSSSOOOOO out of charecter thats why i got upset.

Secondly ... i'd like to point out the teachers know EXACTLY what happened because my son admitted to it, he and the girl gave EXACTLY the same story starting with the bullying from the big lads right up to the point he was kicking her so unless the girl and my son collaberated to "make up a story" which i doubt, i think we can safely say we have the truth

this morning my son ASKED me if he could take money out of his money box to buy the girl something to say sorry without the suggestion coming from me at all, and he sat and made a card after school spending a great deal of time and attention to it to give to her.

My son is getting punished trust me right now he's having the worst punishment of his life, i said i understood it im not making excusess because what he did WAS terrible and trust me when i say just because i understand it, doens't in any way shape of form means he knows, i do.

Don't condem a child you know nothing about, i've spoken with the school at great length's about the subject, they are happy with what is bieng done my end, and his teacher told me not to let it stress me out because she knew he a good kid, he just had a bad day and lost his temper. she even said that he seemed more shookup / upset about it than the girl involved was today in class because he was very very very quiet in class all day and instead of playing with the other kids at lunch he sat on his own.

He knows what he did was wrong, he is being punished don't think that i am in anyway shape or form going easy on him.

But forgive me for not condeming my child just yet...

Stephb1986_2

andyrules wrote: »

Good Lord, every class has an attention seeker! And the boy didn't 'attack' as in 'seek the girl out to deliberately injure', he retaliated in a wrong and inappropriate, but not unusual for a frustrated 7 year old, way. As I have said, we don't have all the details on here so are making assumptions.

I do wonder if people realise how many squabbles, pushes etc go on every playtime in every school.

I agree with gingham, let's not brand him with counselling just yet;)

Steph - it's interesting that you remember this so clearly from 8 years old.

I am only 22 lol! I have many of the reports up in my attic I found them a while ago had a little read

duchy

I suspect that any school worth their salt will have some suggestions to make and I'd hope one of them would be parenting classes. I had a friend with a similar child-demanding, attention seeking and playground rough and tumble always seemed to go a little too far if he was involved. My friend found these classes so helpful-she wasn't a bad Mum (and nor I think is the OP)by any means but one of the most important lessons she took from these classes was that SHE was in charge-and learning to recognise and stop manipulation by her son.