Three Itemised Billing Charges (merged threads)

jasonwatkins

HGLTsuperstar wrote: »

If you haven't had a letter about this and 3 just start charging without mentioning it - what's the legal position?

Interesting question - if you haven't received a letter, i would have thought that there's certainly a case to argue that you weren't aware of the itemised billing charge - or even the change to per-minute billing for that matter.

But it would be a case of proving you were never sent one - so you'd need 3 to tell you if they actually sent you one or not, which would be next to impossible.

and with the per-minute change, they'd just tell you that if you upgraded after the 'golden deadline', then you accepted that change anyway, regardless of if you were informed about it or not.

bindiboo

davieg11 wrote: »

Just contact otelo and tell them that 3 have gave you a final position e-mail which you do not agree with and you are in deadlock. Thats what I done and otelo took on my case and surprise surprise after no communication from 3 for 2 weeks a deadlock letter arrived in post after they had point blank refused to give me one.

I have had an email from otelo


Our ref:

22 September 2008

Dear Mrs xxxxxx

COMPLAINT ABOUT 3

Thank you for your correspondence received on 15 September 2008.
What we can do, and can't do, is set out in our terms of reference (our responsibilities) which you can find on our website at https://www.otelo.org.uk, or by phoning 0330 440 1614 or 01925
430049. At the moment we don't have enough information to know if your complaint is one that we can handle.

If you have already complained to 3 there are two situations where you can involve us.
· You are not making satisfactory progress
You must follow your company's complaints procedure, as set out in their code of practice and allow them up to 12 weeks to sort the problem out for you. If, after 12 weeks of making your complaint, you're still not happy with the way it's been handled, you can pass it to us. For example, the company might not have replied to your complaint or you may not be satisfied with
the way they have sorted it out.

The deadline for bringing it to our attention is nine months from the date you first told the company about the problem

· You have received a deadlock letter from your company
You might get a letter from the company that says they will no longer be handling the complaint.
They might, for example, say that they can't do anything for you and this is their final position.

We call this a 'deadlock letter'. You then have six months from the date of the letter to pass your complaint to us.

We recommend that you complete your company's complaints procedure by writing to them at the address below:

Andrew Mein
3 Executive Office
123 St Vincent St
Glasgow
G2 5EA
Executive Office: 08707 330 412

If after doing this, your complaint is still not sorted out and one of the situations shown above applies, please contact us again.

The attached booklet 'Two sides to every story' explains our role in more detail.
Please quote the reference at the top of this letter in any future correspondence.
Yours sincerely
Tony Prescott
Enquiry Officer

well I got an email stating their final position so will contact otelo again.

soul619

kidcat wrote: »

Most people found that customer services simply lied and refused cancellation, and only got sorted after contacting the exec, going straight to them simply speeds it up. If they tell her to contact the call centre she can say she has and that they refused. They cant tell anyway, when I spoke to them they had no record of my spending almost an hour arguing with customer services, I offered to play the recording I had back to them! But they werent bothered they just gave me my PAC. :j

they can tell they just say they cant to try an get out of it, if you requested a DSIR you'd see that, they have a legal obligation an they have to keep records. an as soon as your caught out lyin you dont stand a chance! just go through CS i did an i cancelled

davieg11

soul619 wrote: »

they can tell they just say they cant to try an get out of it, if you requested a DSIR you'd see that, they have a legal obligation an they have to keep records. an as soon as your caught out lyin you dont stand a chance! just go through CS i did an i cancelled

Do you get commision for receiving extra phone calls over there in India's 3 call centre?

W2S

Hi Guy's and Girls


I'm on 3 500 mins for 15 pounds signed up in march 07 my last 3 bills have been way over what i normally spend @ 60, 70 and last month 70 again as my contract is up i was going to join vodafone for their service but 3 talked me into a new deal 750 xnetwork mins 50 picture message 150 text unlimited landline calls and ulimited internet and email for 32 pounds and a new phone lg viewty

I rang on my billing date which is 18 of every month they said I'd get the phone on the 22 of this month. I charged the phone ( No T&C's in the box of booklet) and checked my3 to make sure my new price plan had started but no still on the 500 for 15 rang 3 CS was told that my new price plan wont start until 18th of Oct which I said is not good enough and wanted to cancel my contract and they said no because I used the handset, which !!!!ed me off abit and started to look at the T&C's and it turns out that I've never received their letter as to the T&C's changes and ask for a SAR search which they said I had to pay 10 pound for said find and ask them how long it takes 40 days OK I said waiting for form.

yesterday got a voicemail to ring them I did and it turns out they want to let me know that their T&C's have changed to per min billing at which point I said I wanted to cancel she said hold on as she pasted me over to cancellation and they refused at first but said if I pay 583 pounds I can get out of the contarct as I had used the phone to ring them as I send the old phone back to them for recycling. if I had know that the per min billing was taking my bill so high in the first place I would of cancelled my contract in the first place jokers :rotfl:

What's the best way around this?

kitdixon

Hi,

i have been reading this thread with interest and would appreciate your comments on my particular circumstances. I started my contract M&M 1100 on the 4th Nov 07 (so just after their "golden deadline" Grr!!).

Having read the thread i decided to check when the "rounding up" to a minute within the first minute had been implemented on my bills. Turns out that for the whole of the first month (phone calls made 05 Nov - 05 Dec) i was being charged per second for all phone calls (inc those under a minute), then part way through the second month i moved to having all calls of less than 1 minute being rounded up (this came into effect on the 13 Dec, so i was "per second" from 6th Dec - 12 Dec and then "rounded up" from 13 Dec - present). I know that my chances of having the contract cancelled are slim as 3 have already said that when i signed up to the contract the T&C's already included the "rounding up" wording but my point is slightly different...

Having researched the wording of the Nov 07 "The Real Deal" the footnotes state that...

"15.

Charging/Billing
All calls made (except calls to short code or premium rate numbers) are initially rounded to the first minute and are billed per second thereafter. After the first minute, calls are charged by the second, except some roaming calls (calls made from abroad), Directory Service and Special calls. For customers other than those on Mix & Match, Flat12 or Stretch tariffs the calls will be billed per second from the start of the call for a promotional period (until 31st January 2008). The call duration will be mathematically rounded to the nearest second. Individual events are charged excluding VAT and are mathematically rounded to one tenth of a penny. VAT is then calculated on the total of all charges that are VAT applicable, and these total charges are then mathematically rounded to the nearest penny."

But this isn't what has happened, initially i was charged per second and then almost a month and a half into the contract i went to being "rounded up". Despite the T&C's (or should i say "the Real Deal" document contents) i signed up for (which, by the way, definately wasn't included in the pack i recieved from 3 when i joined) stating that i would be having all my calls "rounded up" (which appears to be the stance 3 are maintaining to customers who signed up after Oct 07) doesn't the fact that i was being charged per second for the first month+ mean that these were de facto my T&C's (as the above footnote does not mention any date that this would change for people on M&M contracts, rather that it would be the case throughout the entirity of the contract).

As such could we (assuming other people are in the same situation) argue that this constituted an amendment to our "effective" T&C's and since we were not informed of this detrimental change by 3 (at either the time that we took out the contract or 30days prior to the change) that they have breached their side of the contract (i.e "4.1 we will let you know at least one month in advance if we decide to...(ii) make any variations to your agreement which are likely to be of detriment to you"). As far as i can see at no point in any of the T&C's did it mention that i would go from being charged per second to being "rounded up" after a promotional period (rather that all charges would be rounded up from the outset), as i was initially charged per second and then this was amended without informing me surely this can be deemed to be a variation to the agreement that was of detriment to me? Or do you think that this is clutching at straws.

Also it would be interesting to know when other people on the M&M contract noticed this change or if they have been charged per minute for the entirety of their contract? It just seems very odd that they changed this half way through a month/billing period!

To be honest i'm not desperate to cancel the contract but just think that the way 3 have handled the whole situation (and how their customer service staff speak to you on the phone) is appalling. I've already sent off a letter stating the reasons for my complaint and i will keep you posted as to the outcome but would value any comments you may have on my case (dont worry about causing offence to a noob, i have thick skin! lol!)

Cheers and sorry for the long winded post!

dutchie

I upgraded my phone with Three a few months ago, but at no time was I informed of any new T&Cs.

I dont even recall getting sent any new T&Cs sent through, even though they put me on a new price plan. Has anyone else?

When I've upgraded in the past with Orange and One2One I always got a new contract sent through with T&Cs.

I received the letter about the rounding up and the charge for paper billing.

Has anyone else in this position managed to cancel their contract. I have not attempted to yet, so would appreciate info on the quickest route to cancel, before I go through the pain of calling Three Customer Services.

Cheers
Dutchie.

lawsoftheland

Mr_Zippy wrote: »

The price guide states the per minute billing is coming here:
Footnote 15 in "The Real Deal - Nov07", page 31.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/w9xnx8

Check out pages 6 & 7 - "How The Rest of Pay Monthly Works", I cannot see footnote 15 referred too, therefore it's not linked to our terms for pay monthly. I note page 12, "Pay As You Go Flat 12", does show footnote 15.

If you check the Sept 08 Price Guide, pages 6&7 do now have footnote 15 attached to voice & fax, video and video mail.

Am I missing something?
If this is correct then that footnote surely does not apply, as footnotes are linked - not to be read out of context on their own.

Does anyone else have a copy of an older "The Real Deal" document, just to confirm this one hasn't been tampered with (file link above not mine).

Hi Guys

In october 2007 there were changes implemented to Pay as u go section not monthly linerental.

lawsoftheland

15.3 If any of the terms in this agreement are not valid or legally enforceable, the other terms will not be affected. We may replace any item that is not legally effective with a similar term that is.

loup67

Anyone had any success with their case through Otelo yet,would be helpful to know if we may have a reasonable case.
When I called them to check progress I was told "it's coming along nicely"!!,has been about 5 weeks now and am dying to know if it may go my way.