Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

y-o-r-k-y

I started a 2 year contract with Flogas in November , the whole 2 years at 50p/litre. They filled tank from 25% to 85% at start. This week they have just made a delivery when the tank had 50% anyway , they've topped it up to 75%. We have telemetric ordering but expected them to wait until we were down to 20% before next refill. They had nothing to gain on price so is this normal?

JerryW

y-o-r-k-y said:

I started a 2 year contract with Flogas in November , the whole 2 years at 50p/litre. They filled tank from 25% to 85% at start. This week they have just made a delivery when the tank had 50% anyway , they've topped it up to 75%. We have telemetric ordering but expected them to wait until we were down to 20% before next refill. They had nothing to gain on price so is this normal?

Fairly normal, yes. Telemetry allows them to fill whenever they find it convenient... tanker in the area, sales slow, etc etc.

I prefer to do my own monitoring and just ask for a fill when I want one.

JerryW

LessImpecunious said:

It was lpg save / flogas who rejected my attempt to switch to them, because of the (newly-installed by Calor) noncompliant tank...

It seems you are stuck with Calor then. Assuming the electricity cupboard and hedge were there when the tank was installed Calor were clearly at fault and have a legal duty to put it right.

- I assume you do have a legally compliant spot the tank could be put in?

- personally I would reserve threats like arbitration as a last resort. I have found Calor are not difficult to deal with once you are past the sales lot. Ask them for an engineer visit and see what they have to say.

- I got Calor to move my tank, all I had to do was provide a concrete base. They put new pipework in too.

- Meantime you can still get quotes from elsewhere subject to survey and use them to bargain with Calor.. personally I don't like to be out of contract. Nothing to stop you negotiating a new contract and then returning to the tank issue.

Cloverleaf2

I decided to call Calor and tell them to send one of their engineers out to inspect the tank and explain why they regard it as 'compliant' when Flogas and Avanti don't. When I told the guy about the meter and parts of the hedge being too close, he said when it's a historic installation they can take a more relaxed view of the risks, for example if one of the boundaries is less than 3m away, it would still be ok if the neighbouring was farmland for example, as opposed to someone's garden. I asked him where the two sets of regulations (for new installations and 'historic' ones)  are published so I could examine them in detail, to which he replied that they are drawn up by Liquid Gas UK and can only be seen by someone if they 'pay to use them' such as Calor gas do. I then put it to him that this means that these regulations are effectively secret. This conversation was going nowhere so I told him to arrange to send the engineer out, which he kicked into the long grass by saying that he'll call me back sometime but not any time soon to let me know when they're coming. 
Next I turned to Flogas who have offered my a two year contract for 50ppl for the entire 2 years. I got them to send their sales guy out who was pleasant enough but seemed to know less about gas installations than I do. He established that they could never take over the existing tank because of the electricity meter, so we identified a site nearby that would be compliant and he got back to me later with their price to supply and deliver a new 2200 litre tank to a base that I have prepared and connect it up to my existing pipeline that at present is connected to the Calor tank nearby. The price was £750 + VAT, but then the rub was that the gas price was 61ppl for the gas for a two year contract. This meant that compared to the original price the whole deal suddenly costs an extra £1050 in the first 2 year period, as I use about 5000 litres per year.  He later explained this is because they need to charge more for the gas on a new installation as it involves more expense for them compared to taking over an existing tank. That implies that they think they £1800 to supply and connect the tank.
It seems that they've got you screwed whatever you try to do.  Changing over to oil is looking more attractive every day. 

Cloverleaf2

I also sent a lengthy email to Liquid Gas UK last week about all this but they've never replied.

123Ed

I got the following email from AvantiGas today which I thought I'd share. I understand the logic of getting customers topped up before the peak season, but for them to say they can't guarantee a delivery before 1 April if I order after 1 December isn't very reassuring! (Their consumption profile is also wrong as on average I use 1800litre/yr and have a tank that holds 1200litres)...

"As we approach our busiest time of the year, we want to ensure that we are prepared for peak season when the demand for LPG becomes greater.

 

Between January and March are our busiest months, with high demand, and uncontrollable challenges, this means we cannot guarantee a delivery during this timeframe.

 

We are committed to preparing for these challenges by delivering to you between now and December to ensure sufficient supply that will see you through to spring.

 

According to your consumption profile, your LPG tank capacity is more than your annual consumption, and therefore based on your past delivery history, we predict that you shouldn't require an LPG delivery between January and March if an order is placed before 1 December 2024.

 

We strongly recommend, as you are enrolled onto our manual ordering service, that you place an LPG order before 1 December 2024, to allow time for your delivery before January.

 

To place an order please log into your account.

Please note that, due to the above reasoning, if you place your LPG order past 1 December 2024, we cannot guarantee that your delivery will reach you before 1 April 2024 [sic], and therefore we encourage that you act now to prevent a shortage of your supply during winter.

Thank you for being a valued customer.

Courtney Beswick

Head of Customer Experience"

JerryW

123Ed said:

I got the following email from AvantiGas today which I thought I'd share. I understand the logic of getting customers topped up before the peak season, but for them to say they can't guarantee a delivery before 1 April if I order after 1 December isn't very reassuring! (Their consumption profile is also wrong as on average I use 1800litre/yr and have a tank that holds 1200litres)...<snip>

Thank you for being a valued customer.

Courtney Beswick

Head of Customer Experience"

Clearly you are not a "valued customer!" I suspect Avanti don't have any of those at all. They seem bent on getting rid of them altogether.

Move elsewhere, my advice, at the earliest opportunity.

D4rkS4v4nt

That time again, I'm with Flogas currently and paying 56ppl (year 1 was 51ppl with a 5p cap in year 2).

LPG Save 
Option 1: 51 pence per litre, Fixed for 12 months. In Year 2, your gas price will then be capped at no more than 7 pence per litre above the Year 1 Price. (+vat @ 5%).
Option 2: 54 pence per litre, Fixed for 24 months (+vat @ 5%)

Midlands LPG (does anyone use this company or have any feedback - seems to good to be true...)
43 pence per litre, fixed for 12 months, year 2 variable (currently 43ppl)

Callow Gas (local supplier)
58 pence per litre variable

Looks like I will probably stick with Flogas as I can't find any feedback about Midlands LPG.

JerryW

D4rkS4v4nt said:

That time again, I'm with Flogas currently and paying 56ppl (year 1 was 51ppl with a 5p cap in year 2).

LPG Save 
Option 1: 51 pence per litre, Fixed for 12 months. In Year 2, your gas price will then be capped at no more than 7 pence per litre above the Year 1 Price. (+vat @ 5%).
Option 2: 54 pence per litre, Fixed for 24 months (+vat @ 5%)

Midlands LPG (does anyone use this company or have any feedback - seems to good to be true...)
43 pence per litre, fixed for 12 months, year 2 variable (currently 43ppl)

Callow Gas (local supplier)
58 pence per litre variable

Looks like I will probably stick with Flogas as I can't find any feedback about Midlands LPG.

Someone in March (page 441 here) went with a local independent:

"After having a think I have gone with the local independent 2 deal. After speaking to them about my worries in year 2 of the contract they stated “it is worth noting that customers who switched to us nearly 2 years ago are still only paying 43p as there has been no reason for us to increase the price”."

.. but I don't know it that's the same company or just a coincidence.

Powapa

JerryW said:

D4rkS4v4nt said:

That time again, I'm with Flogas currently and paying 56ppl (year 1 was 51ppl with a 5p cap in year 2).

LPG Save 
Option 1: 51 pence per litre, Fixed for 12 months. In Year 2, your gas price will then be capped at no more than 7 pence per litre above the Year 1 Price. (+vat @ 5%).
Option 2: 54 pence per litre, Fixed for 24 months (+vat @ 5%)

Midlands LPG (does anyone use this company or have any feedback - seems to good to be true...)
43 pence per litre, fixed for 12 months, year 2 variable (currently 43ppl)

Callow Gas (local supplier)
58 pence per litre variable

Looks like I will probably stick with Flogas as I can't find any feedback about Midlands LPG.

Someone in March (page 441 here) went with a local independent:

"After having a think I have gone with the local independent 2 deal. After speaking to them about my worries in year 2 of the contract they stated “it is worth noting that customers who switched to us nearly 2 years ago are still only paying 43p as there has been no reason for us to increase the price”."

.. but I don't know it that's the same company or just a coincidence.

That would be me and yes it was Midlands LPG I went with. Really easy to deal with, delivered when they said they were and competitively priced. I’m still in my year 1 fix so unsure what year 2 will look like yet but so far so good.