Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

JerryW

babe-ruth said:

Just wondering what your views are on this situation with Calor

Calor topped my tank up last May by mistake. Nothing was put through my door to say they had done this so I wasn’t aware until a couple of months later when I was checking. I tried to report on they’re web site but it was not working for a long time and over time I just forgot about it.

It was 60% full at the time and I had not requested a fill because I diligently keep an eye on our tank and fill up (when possible)) when prices are lower.

13 months later I received an email with an invoice for this smallish top up, charged at 75p per ltr. No mention that they were sorry and had made a mistake. I replied to the email and asked for someone to call me to discuss - no reply. I messaged them on the now working web site - no reply. I emailed them - no reply.
I phoned and asked for some to call which they promised they would and also gave me a number relating to enquiry- you guessed it - no reply.

Now we have received the threatening letter so I phoned again, long telephone conversation it basically they will not budge. When I asked if they would take some responsibility for their mistake the response was we are taking responsibility by admitting that we made a mistake and we’re sorry but being as you have used the gas you have to pay.

Thoughts?

Do you have a contract with calor?

For 75p/l??

Do you have telemetry?

If you knew they had supplied the gas, which you agree you did, and the gas has been used, you will have to pay something, i reckon. What would you consider a fair price?

babe-ruth

JerryW said:

Do you have a contract with calor?

For 75p/l??

Do you have telemetry?

If you knew they had supplied the gas, which you agree you did, and the gas has been used, you will have to pay something, i reckon. What would you consider a fair price?

No we’re out of contract.
Yes they have charged us 75p per litre 
Yes but they are under instruction to only fill at my request, which they acknowledge.
We were hoping a gesture of good will and they would offer some reduction, we are happy to pay some of course but we purposely filled up for the winter before prices rose last year. Thank goodness the tank was 60% full when they did it.

JerryW

babe-ruth said:

JerryW said:

Do you have a contract with calor?

For 75p/l??

Do you have telemetry?

If you knew they had supplied the gas, which you agree you did, and the gas has been used, you will have to pay something, i reckon. What would you consider a fair price?

No we’re out of contract.
Yes they have charged us 75p per litre 
Yes but they are under instruction to only fill at my request, which they acknowledge.
We were hoping a gesture of good will and they would offer some reduction, we are happy to pay some of course but we purposely filled up for the winter before prices rose last year. Thank goodness the tank was 60% full when they did it.

Work out what you think is a reasonable settlement and pay that sum. Perhaps the price you filled up with them before? Write them a letter, send it recorded, tell them that is your best offer that they should accept in full and final settlement.

You can tough it out but in court you don't have any sort of case that I can see... and if you are still relying on lpg, beware of what future suppliers may think

Best of luck! Would be most interested to hear how this turns out ..

babe-ruth

Thank you for your comments Jerry, we tried to tough it out on a phone call but the girl was having non of it. 

At the last minute she agreed to looking into our group price at the time of fill up last year so we are waiting on her
response.

The price we paid before the top up error was 48p per litre.

I totally agree with your comment on future suppliers. We would like to switch not only because of this cockup but their customer service is terrible,  they are always making mistakes on bills etc wrong info on phone calls and filling up the wrong tank with the other customers in our group. This happened to the previous owners 10 years ago but they waived the fee back then, a full tank too!!

JerryW

So .. Flogas contract renewal time. I did my usual routine which is (1) find everyone who will supply and ask them what their best price is, (2) negotiate individually until you get the best price you can... for a two year fix only. To me, tieing someone into a two year contract that allows them to do whatever they like in year two is beyond unacceptable. It is positively larcenous.

- Avanti said 46p/l for 12 month and then  "as wholesale prices dictate." Larcenous, see above, they would put no brake or restraint on what they might charge in year 2. I would call that an unfair term, challengeable in the courts if you were so inclined. Especally since they can see the wholesale prices and we can't! How can it be right to charge whatever you want without any chance for the consumer to escape? I recommend that in such circumstances anyone should have a right to depart elsewhere on the same basis as if the contract was ended.

- Extra Gas, 51p/l fixed for 12m and no more than 3p/l increase in year 2

- Rose Gas, 58p/l for three deliveries and then "variable." Presumably just an offer to catch the naive or unwary?

- Calor, 47.9p fixed for two years

- LPG SAVE, either 52p/l fixed for 2 years or 49p/l for 12 months then no more than 7p/l in year two.

Meantime, Flogas themselves sent me a renewal letter offering 59p/l, fixed for 12 months "to give you added security" ... larcenous, see above. It hurts me, that some might see this as a genuine offer worth accepting.. BUT when I phoned Flogas, it turned out they were happy to offer to continue at 47p/l for the coming two years, fixed. I have done so. I had hoped for a bit better, I have to say, as prices have been coming down for a while now. But it is worth something to be settled for the life of the contract. They never mentioned the risible offer they put in writing...

Overall this took about half a day of my time, and I urge everyone to do the same when their contract becomes due. ALL utility costs are worth a little research and negotiation. lpg not the least..

If I lived in the area served by Midlands lpg I should be sorely tempted to move to them!

RV68

As an additional data point...

We were with Calor, have been for years, contract ended in August, 12 months at 82p, then variable, but remained at 82p. I know, my eyes have been opened, I can't believe I didn't review this before now.

Used LPG Save, who offered FloGas at 48p fixed for 2 years, £80pa standing charge. A call to Calor and the best they could offer, over the phone, was, I think 75p, so I agreed to the switch.

FloGas, or LPG Save, not sure who, identified that we had cracking paint on our Bagom tank and stated it must be fixed before FloGas would take us on. Arranged this with Calor after a little chasing, and had two lovely chaps come and make the repair. LPG Save proceeded with the switch. 

Once Calor received the switch request they then counter offered at 48p fixed for 12 months, then variable, and 25.13p/day standing charge, about 4p more than FloGas. I countered with fixed for 24 months which they agreed to.

Despite my anger at the high price we had been paying, they were the devil we knew, and in all other respects had had good service from them, so I stayed with Calor.

MarieVW

We have been very foolish and had let our calor contract run without negotiating a price for the last 5 years and i was absolutely astounded when I looked at the latest bill to see we're paying 86.79p a litre.  

When I rang them they said it was because we were low users - we average between 3500-4500 litres a year depending on how cold it is and as a good will gesture offered to fix our price at 70p litre for 12 months! Loyalty pays eh!!

I've been obtaining quotes and have received the following

Avanti - 46p fixed for 12 months variable thereafter  
Flogas - 55p for 2 years 
LPG Save - would only give a Flogas quote of 51p fixed for 2 years. Does anyone get any other quote from them?
Midlands LPG 43p for 1 year
Cam Gas 58p fixed for 1 year 
Both of the above said it's likely the price would remain the same for the 2nd year.
Extra Gas 45p year 1 and 48p year 2.  They also offered a 1p discount if you pay upfront for your delivery which will make it 44p & 47p only downside is their standing charge is the highest. 

We decided to go with Extra Gas and although midlands are the cheapest, I just felt a bit wary that they're a new company (4/5y olds) and they're quite far from us even though they do cover our area. Calor rang us when they received the switch paperwork and offered us 48.9p for 2 years but they've had the last of all my money now they're not getting anymore!

Mister_G

I'm sure that the profit they made on selling you LPG at the exorbitant price of 82ppl will more than cover the reduction in profit for two years at 48ppl!

As a LPG user for the past 40 years, this is the first time that I've heard of Calor being willing to negotiate on such a huge price difference. 

JerryW

MarieVW said:

We have been very foolish and had let our calor contract run without negotiating a price for the last 5 years and i was absolutely astounded when I looked at the latest bill to see we're paying 86.79p a litre.  

When I rang them they said it was because we were low users - we average between 3500-4500 litres a year depending on how cold it is and as a good will gesture offered to fix our price at 70p litre for 12 months! Loyalty pays eh!!

I've been obtaining quotes and have received the following

Avanti - 46p fixed for 12 months variable thereafter  
Flogas - 55p for 2 years 
LPG Save - would only give a Flogas quote of 51p fixed for 2 years. Does anyone get any other quote from them?
Midlands LPG 43p for 1 year
Cam Gas 58p fixed for 1 year 
Both of the above said it's likely the price would remain the same for the 2nd year.
Extra Gas 45p year 1 and 48p year 2.  They also offered a 1p discount if you pay upfront for your delivery which will make it 44p & 47p only downside is their standing charge is the highest. 

We decided to go with Extra Gas and although midlands are the cheapest, I just felt a bit wary that they're a new company (4/5y olds) and they're quite far from us even though they do cover our area. Calor rang us when they received the switch paperwork and offered us 48.9p for 2 years but they've had the last of all my money now they're not getting anymore!

- I would not say 3,500-4,000 l/pa was low usage. I would say that was higher than average for domestic use.

- We have at least two members here who are signed up to Midlands lpg, it will be interesting to hear how they get on..

- yes, LPG Save only give quotes from Flogas. Lately, quotes from Flogas themselves have been lower! Your Flogas quote looks high. The ExtraGas one though is cheaper than they quoted me.

- sales staff are weasels, aren't they? Look at Calor.. 86.7 > 70p > 48.9 !

MarieVW

Mister_G said:

I'm sure that the profit they made on selling you LPG at the exorbitant price of 82ppl will more than cover the reduction in profit for two years at 48ppl!

As a LPG user for the past 40 years, this is the first time that I've heard of Calor being willing to negotiate on such a huge price difference. 

It may have something to do with the very stern talking to I gave them, after asking countless managers why,  as a calor customer for  over 10 years they felt the need to charge me so much. I'm afraid I was rather a (polite) bull to a red rag.