Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

HateLPG

LPGemployee wrote: »

Ok...this could be Dangerous...I work for one of the LPG suppliers.
Ive sifted through some of these threads and i have to say some of the posts have made me laugth. (Im not laugthing at anyone!). But I have noticed that some of the advice given is absolute rubbish!
One thing that seems to pop up alot lately is how customers are on different prices, and alot of people are saying there should be one fixed rate....Not possible!

I'm sorry LPG Employee, I don't wan't to start a flame war, and this is NOT a personal attack, but your argument simply doesn't wash!

I FULLY accept that the gross price of LPG is dependent on usage and location. NO argument. HOWEVER, the LPG companies do not WANT to make pricing transparent, or publish any kind of tarrif. Lets be brutally honest here, the LPG companies are in business to MAKE A PROFIT FOR THEIR SHAREHOLDERS. I've got no beef with that per se - we live in a capitalist society, and like or not, that's what EVERY company is in business for. By keeping prices opaque and relying on a per-contract negotiation, they are maximising their profits - primarily at the expense of the weak, ill-informed, un-educated or unwise and consequently often also the poorest (let's call them "most vulnerable") customers.

I have thought about this long and hard over the past months and I believe it IS possible for LPG companies to offer transparent pricing, IF THEY WANT TO, but for obvious reasons, they CHOOSE not to.

If I was in the LPG supply business and wanted to offer transparent pricing, I would do something along the lines of the following (all figures are for ILLUSTRATION ONLY - I don't want to get embroiled in an argument over specifics, but by choosing some arbitrary values, I can illustrate my point more clearly):

Have a band of lets say (for arguments sake) three BASE tariffs, based on USAGE, for example:

• 0-1,500 litres p.a.
• 1,500 - 5,000 litres p.a.
• > 5,000 litres p.a.

These could be readily publicised or made available on the company website and we'd all know where we were starting from.

Next, I would have a banding, based very simply on radial distance from the NEAREST distribution depot (or, before you pick me up on terminology, whatever it is "officially" called), and have a FLAT RATE PER DELIVERY (obviously with some commitment that the supplier wouldn't make an automatic delivery until the projected volume was less than say 30%, unless specifically requested by the customer), for example:

• within 25 miles: £25 per delivery
• 25-40 miles:£35 per delivery
• >40 miles: £40 per delivery

As a well known advert would say: "simples!"

Nice and clear and transparent. Easily calculated. Easily comparable. Easy for the end user to get the best deal and compare deals and suppliers.

Sadly, the "Big four" have had it rather too easy on this particular gravy train over the past few years, and although they made a good start, the Competition Commission really has left far to much flexibilty and freedom in the system which still permits ruthless exploitation of the customer. Some companies (e.g. Flogas) seem to be more cynical in their exploitation than others, not even offering any kind of "contractual cap" on possible increases. Transparent pricing requires a complete paradigm shift, and I just don't think the industry is ready for that or that at present the Competition Commision has the interest, strength or determination to force it through in the face of objections from the suppliers.

I do not begrudge the companies their profits - if they didn't make them, they wouldn't be there at all - but I would lay good money that if there was transparency the average price would drop by something between 15% and 25% (and sadly, would probably have to rise for those of us on the BEST deals).

Just my thoughts on this matter - I'm sure others will have plenty to contribute - but I simply do not accept that it is not POSSIBLE to have transparent pricing. Just that opacity is in the suppliers' interests!

GrandadRob

For the benefit of those who have been following this thread lately, and saw that I wrote to my MP regarding LPG. He said that he would pass my letter on to Vince Cable.... Anyway today got a reply from Charles Hendry MP, Minister of State for Energy and Climate Change.
Basically his reply told the story of the rise in crude oil being reflected in LPG prices, the sorry state of the pound against the dollar, winter demand hyping prices etc etc. To summarise, AS USEFUL AS AN ASHTRAY ON A MOTORBIKE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Heard all that before, how does that explain someone like Flogas charging some customers 39ppl and me 64ppl.
He does finish by saying that I could always report any supplier to the Office of Fair Trading, so I will try that one. Trading standards wern't interested, but I will try.
Why do MP's treat the public like children or idiots ?????:(:(

Report your problems to the Office of Fair Trading on this email address.
[EMAIL="enquiries@oft.gsi.uk"]enquiries@oft.gsi.uk[/EMAIL]

I just did...

LPG EMPLOYEE. How does your argument fit with Flogas charging me 64ppl as a customer IN CONTRACT, and offering OUT-OF-CONTRACT customers as low as 39ppl. Even given your arguments of distance and amount of useage.

pryland

Calor have always dominated the market, and buy out the opposition.
I have seen 3 companies go that way in Norfolk and Suffolk in the last few years. They keep the price as high as possible.
Flogas were ALWAYS cheaper than Calor in every way. I would be amazed to see them price higher, as the giant can always give a fuller service.
Very sad if they are overpricing for the least able or disadvantaged customer. Seems more likely a mistake up than a general policy.

GrandadRob

Hi Pryland.
If Flogas have mistakenly charged me a high price, then they have been doing it for many years. If I suggest this to them, maybe they will send me a refund................:T:rotfl::rotfl:

drfrot

Starts with a big *sigh*....

I only ever find myself on here when I get the dreaded price rise letters. So, to keep you all in the loop, I shall post my price history.

I left Flogas in 2009, as their prices were climbing and climbing and their service was dreadful (nothing you don't already know). Living in South Wales (Monmouthshire), I moved over to Countrywide. They offered no deals, no fixed prices etc but were the cheapest from all of the companies I contacted at the time - and believe me, I called them all!

I'm on a two year contract which ends in June 2011. We have a 2,250L tank and use somewhere between 3,500-4,000L a year.

Jan 09 (Flogas): 39.0 ppl (+ 5% VAT, as are all prices given below)

Jun 09 (swapped to Countrywide): 33.0 (with a £12.50 + VAT quarterly rental fee)

5 months later... November 09: PRICE RISE. Up 3.9p to 36.9 ppl
2 months later... January 10: PRICE RISE. Up 1.5p to 38.4 ppl
2 months later... March 10: PRICE RISE. Up 1.8p to 40.2 ppl
7 months later... October 10: PRICE RISE. Up 3.5p to 43.7 ppl
1 (yes, one!!!) month later... November 10: PRICE RISE. Up 5.5p (!!!!) to 49.2 ppl

I can't help but think they're really starting to take the !!!!, and are no better than Flogas. That's a scandalous increase! Is anyone else being hammered repeatedly like this? Of course, the letter contains the same sob story about how "2010 is proving to be a testing time for the LPG industry..."

Well, how do you think the sodding customers feel??!!

Distinctly unimpressed, especially reading others' prices above...

G

HateLPG

drfrot wrote: »

Well, how do you think the sodding customers feel??!!

Cold???

Bosun

Hi, I have just paid 48.9p/litre from Calor for 1300litres of LPG (I live in Kent in the Canterbury area). Some friends used to live in a small community of converted farm buildings and as there were several properties got a MUCH better rate than me.

Just interested to know what prices other folk are paying for their gas and any recommendations for alternative suppliers in Kent?

Thanks!

MaritzUK

Hello all - my first post here!

Moved into a house in Kent, near Tunbridge Wells, in July that had an existing underground LPG tank owned by Calor. They wrote to me just after we moved in offering 47.5p/l. I have to admit I sat on the letter until now as the tank was 40% full when we moved in (yes, we paid the previous occupant for the LPG!).

Anyway, today I realised we're down to 20% left and so I'd better pull my finger out and get a contract in place. Went to the uklpg.org site and the following companies came up for this area (with prices I've just got from them this morning):

Flogas 39p/l
BP - don't deal with underground tanks(!?)
Extra Fuel 44.9p/l
Shell 38.5p/l

Called Calor and told them their price on the contract they sent three months ago wasn't very competitive and they've dropped it to 39.9p/l

They all seem to have fairly similar contract terms (i.e. price rises capped at 3p or 3.5p in each 6 month period) and standing charges within £25pa of each other, so I've got Shell coming out to do a survey next week.

All of the above just for your info really - might be of particular interest to you, Bosun!

EDIT: forgot, Shell reckoned the two of us in the house would use about 3000 litres per year - does this sound about right?

The_Hornet

Thanks MaritzUK for an interesting post. I've been with Countrywide for 3 years and have had the same letter that others have mentioned stating that they are imposing ANOTHER 5.5p increase effective immediately. However they will offer me 2p off this if I order before 19th November (woo hoo!!). I just called them and it seems they are wanting to charge me 49.2p/l (minus 2p for a quick top up). Checking my original contract to make sure I'm no longer bound by it (I'm not so I can shop around :j) I see I was paying 25p/l when it started.

I checked for local suppliers as suggested on uklpg.org and have spoken to several. 3 of them have quoted me so far:

Listers 39.5p
Shell 39.5p
Calor 39.5p

Amazing similarity I thought!! Calor are also offering £100 of "free" gas over 2 years. Tank rental is £100 a year for all three. I'm still waiting for callbacks from a couple but I see no reason to doubt they will be similar. What is it with Countrywide???

Interestingly the guy from Lister said he had received more calls from Countrywide customers in the past week than he had in the past 7 years. :rotfl:

So I've been back to Countrywide telling them (politely) that their price was unacceptable and I would be moving. To her credit the lady I spoke to sympathised and said she was in the same position and was also thinking of switching from Countrywide. I am now waiting a call from their retentions department to see what deal they are going to offer me to stay.

Has anyone any recommendations on the suppliers listed above who have quoted?

Edit to say we use around 3000litres/year

DAVID.T_3

The_Hornet wrote: »

Thanks MaritzUK for an interesting post. I've been with Countrywide for 3 years and have had the same letter that others have mentioned stating that they are imposing ANOTHER 5.5p increase effective immediately. However they will offer me 2p off this if I order before 19th November (woo hoo!!). I just called them and it seems they are wanting to charge me 49.2p/l (minus 2p for a quick top up). Checking my original contract to make sure I'm no longer bound by it (I'm not so I can shop around :j) I see I was paying 25p/l when it started.

I checked for local suppliers as suggested on uklpg.org and have spoken to several. 3 of them have quoted me so far:

Listers 39.5p
Shell 39.5p
Calor 39.5p

Amazing similarity I thought!! Calor are also offering £100 of "free" gas over 2 years. Tank rental is £100 a year for all three. I'm still waiting for callbacks from a couple but I see no reason to doubt they will be similar. What is it with Countrywide???

Interestingly the guy from Lister said he had received more calls from Countrywide customers in the past week than he had in the past 7 years. :rotfl:

So I've been back to Countrywide telling them (politely) that their price was unacceptable and I would be moving. To her credit the lady I spoke to sympathised and said she was in the same position and was also thinking of switching from Countrywide. I am now waiting a call from their retentions department to see what deal they are going to offer me to stay.

Has anyone any recommendations on the suppliers listed above who have quoted?

Edit to say we use around 3000litres/year

Hi Out of the 3 prices you have been quoted swapping to two of the suppliers would be a complete waste of time. I make no secret that I work for a gas company myself and cannot stress enough that the smaller the company the better, so I would say Listers out of the three quotes you have got. The sad fact of all this is that all 3 prices quoted to you are too cheap!!! Any gas company needs to be charging around 42/43p per ltr at the moment to make any profit. FACT The big boys quote a low price to get you in and then up your price over the two year contract. The smaller companies then have to quote a similar price, or lets face it most people will go to the one with the lowest starting price, they may not want to quote that low but if the dont they won't get any customers. Choose the one you feel happier with who have people with names you can speak to and have some type of trading relationship with.