Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

mitchy74

I was told by one of the smaller independants that Shell was trying to sell their Scottish LPG arm of the business, in doing so they are offering some fantastic rates to get customers on board.

Flogas @ 48.5ppl are currently trying to stop me moving over to Shell @ 32.5ppl, despite there being no contract in place. Every time they say no, it takes me further into the Winter months and higher usage. Horrible horrible company to deal with.

LittleVermin

mitchy74 wrote: »

I was told by one of the smaller independants that Shell was trying to sell their Scottish LPG arm of the business, in doing so they are offering some fantastic rates to get customers on board.

Flogas @ 48.5ppl are currently trying to stop me moving over to Shell @ 32.5ppl, despite there being no contract in place. Every time they say no, it takes me further into the Winter months and higher usage. Horrible horrible company to deal with.

Hi mitchy74,

You have no contract with Flogas so Flogas do not have the option of saying no. You complete the supplier switch notice form (Notice 1) -
http://www-static.shell.com/static/gbr/downloads/lpg/switch_to_shell_gas_lpg.pdf
- and send it to Shell and then the "switch must be made within 28 days of your old supplier being told of your wish to switch" - Shell will tell Flogas. If you need a new tank then the deadline is extended to 42 days.

This is in the Domestic Bulk Liquefied Petroleum Gas Market Investigation Order which came into effect in April 2009:
http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/EnergySupplyandPost/energysupply/563247/LPG

I hope this helps. When you've a bit of time please tell us exactly what Flogas have been doing. I hope you have some records of your actions and their responses.

Best wishes - and welcome to the forum!

You also need to tell Flogas, in writing (recorded delivery) that you do NOT wish to have any more deliveries. A couple of people on this forum have reported that Flogas have made unasked for deliveries and in one case threatened taking the user to court when he/she refused to pay. This is one: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=36680339&postcount=1

For your new contract with Shell - at that fantasic starting price - you need to get a maximum rate of price rise as a clause too. I would not accept a mximum rise of 10ppl per six months or you could be paying 63.5 for the last 6 months of your 2 year deal. Maybe 3.5 per 6 months - so your max price will be 42.5 for the last 6 months? You might do better ...

mitchy74

Thanks LV.

I had bought my current house over a year ago and called FG at the time to tell them they need to update the records, at the time the prices were 35p and had the old owners details on the invoices (family member). Given those prices were cheaper than new contracts at the time I didnt press the issue and just paid the invoices as they came.... then the prices started creeping up to the 48.5ppl they are currently.

Again I tried to get through to them that I didnt have a contract with them and that I wanted to get a contract at lower rates or I would leave and that I was free to which they agreed I could do and that they would update records to state that.

Phoned shell and they gave me what I think is a fantastic rate, I havent seen one that low offered on here in a long time of reading. Shell applied to Flogas in writing, which surprise surprise was rejected as i was apparently under contract, strangely Shell didnt get the rejection notice but I did. Phoned Flogas and they agreed that I was correct and that they would lift the rejection but that Shell would have to begin the 28 day notice period again which delays things further.

Fingers crossed it gets sorted soon as this winter at the new rate would be ideal as then the last 6 months of the 2 year deal at the highest rate would fall predominately in the summer.

In hindsight I should of put it in writing that the account needed changed. I also dont believe its a conincidence that you seem to get a delivery every time the letter of notification of a price rise is in the post.

LittleVermin

mitchy74 wrote: »

Thanks LV.

I had bought my current house over a year ago and called FG at the time to tell them they need to update the records, at the time the prices were 35p and had the old owners details on the invoices (family member). Given those prices were cheaper than new contracts at the time I didnt press the issue and just paid the invoices as they came.... then the prices started creeping up to the 48.5ppl they are currently.

Again I tried to get through to them that I didnt have a contract with them and that I wanted to get a contract at lower rates or I would leave and that I was free to which they agreed I could do and that they would update records to state that.

Phoned shell and they gave me what I think is a fantastic rate, I havent seen one that low offered on here in a long time of reading. Shell applied to Flogas in writing, which surprise surprise was rejected as i was apparently under contract, strangely Shell didnt get the rejection notice but I did. Phoned Flogas and they agreed that I was correct and that they would lift the rejection but that Shell would have to begin the 28 day notice period again which delays things further.

Fingers crossed it gets sorted soon as this winter at the new rate would be ideal as then the last 6 months of the 2 year deal at the highest rate would fall predominately in the summer.

In hindsight I should of put it in writing that the account needed changed. I also dont believe its a conincidence that you seem to get a delivery every time the letter of notification of a price rise is in the post.

1. Somewhere in the Competition Commission stuff there's something about the old and new suppliers having to work to ensure the user does not run out of LPG. In my case my new supplier filled my tank one week before I heard from them that the paper work had been finalised - and long before the new supplier's engineer had done the tank check. I was so fed up with BP's price that I refused to buy more gas from them and the tank was at 2% (it was summertime so no big deal).

2. If there's a Trading Standards near you it might be worth visiting. Though what's on this forum about Trading Standards and LPG isn't encouraging.

3. Do make sure you've a good maximum rate of price rise in your Shell contract! So that if Shell sells the buyer can't suddenly up prices massively.

4. Notice 1 includes a customer declaration which needs a dated signature: "...I hereby consent to the new supplier acting on my behalf to effect the transfer of supplier" - so that's probably the basis that Flogas are saying you have to start again.

mitchy74

Thanks!

New shell contract states that they cant up the price more than 3p in the second, third and fourth quarters of the 2 year contract. So fingers crossed as that doesnt even take it close to the current 48.5ppl off Flo.

LittleVermin

mitchy74 wrote: »

Thanks!

New shell contract states that they cant up the price more than 3p in the second, third and fourth quarters of the 2 year contract. So fingers crossed as that doesnt even take it close to the current 48.5ppl off Flo.

BINGO!

That's even better than I would have expected. Everyone will now be quoting that maximum rise to all their potential suppliers!

mitchy74

So I have a pretty good deal then?

LittleVermin

mitchy74 wrote: »

So I have a pretty good deal then?

Indeed!

I see that aureole (post #273) also had the same max of 3p in 6 months from Shell - so useful for others to be able to quote and not just Shell trying to sign up lots of customers before selling their Scottish operation.

Which part of Scotland, please? Are you near a big LPG tank farm? Occasionaly people come on the forum who are miles from anywhere which is being suggested as a reason for a high price (which would be at least partially valid). Pricing is so opaque - it sometimes seems to be solely dictated by what the suppliers think they can get away with.

HateLPG

LittleVermin wrote: »

HateLPG, in a post on 25th May this year, said old Calor contracts had a max rise of 2.5ppl in 6 months, new ones 3.5ppl in 6 months.

Hi All,

Sorry haven't posted in a while - life's been kind of overtaking me, but I just about have time to follow the forum by email, if not to post!

I've just seen this post by LV (some good posts there - TY :T) and thought I's better mention that if memory serves (I dont have any of the paperwork to hand) the most recent Calor contract I've seen was limited to 3.5ppl every THREE months, so the sneaky beggars are trying to slip an annual price cap of 14ppl under the radar. On top of that, their "best price" on contract renewal was 38.65ppl. My shiny new Shell contract (36ppl - and it sounds like there are even BETTER deals to be had out of Shell at the moment) is capped at 3ppl in every SIX months (i.e. 6ppl per year). No Contest! Shell got my business.

I had to have the tank re-sited - It transpires that Calor should never have been supplying to the old tank as it's siting was in total contravention of existing regulations. When I queried this in the past with Calor, I was told that as the tank conformed to regulations when it was installed, that was not a problem. Shell took a different view (and said that was simply wrong and that the tank *must* comply with regulations). Whether that was, as I suspect, Calor turning a blind eye to keep the business, or Shell being very strict on the interpretation I don't know, but as I wanted to move teh tank anyway, that was no problem at all and I now have a shiny new 2000l underground tank buried in the front garden :-) One word of warning to anyone considering moving to an underground tank: Regardless of who is providing/installing the tank, it is the householders responsibility to actually organise and pay for all ground works (i.e. digging the blooming big hole and filling it in again afterwards). This wasn't a big deal (other than the cost!) and again, Shell were very helpful in advising and coordinating their work with this.

The transfer went VERY smoothly, and the office staff I dealt with during switchover were extremely helpful and clued up and made it as easy as it could be. I'm now a Bona Fide Shell customer, so any future contact will most likely be through their accounts/customer services department. I've no experience of this as yet, but if they are as switched on and helpful as the staff I've dealt with thus far, that's not going to be remotely painful!

Good luck all - I'm still lurking and still mad at LPG prices (just a little temporally challenged right now) so I will pop up and throw in my 2p-worth from time to time :-)

LittleVermin

PhilCS wrote: »

<snip> Can anyone recommend a good supplier in the Carmarthenshire please.

Hi Phil,

Welcome to the forum.

I do not know who'll supply you in Carmarthenshire so cannot comment - but I guess there are some small suppliers?

ALSO you might wish to see if you qualify to get your LPG through Mole Valley Farmers. At the very least you'd need to sign up as a member of Mole Valley Plus - for a massive £10 a year! - and they seem to have deals with Calor, Shell and Flogas (I'm sure you'll avoid them!). Mole Valley is SW based - but also in S Wales and has recently bought a farmers' co-op supplier trading in SE England.

Maybe worth a phone call? Let us all know please if you do try this route!

http://www.molevalleyfarmers.com/mvf/info/farming/Mole_Valley_Plus_Introduction