Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?

DAVID.T_3

LPGemployee wrote: »

Ok...this could be Dangerous...I work for one of the LPG suppliers.
Ive sifted through some of these threads and i have to say some of the posts have made me laugth. (Im not laugthing at anyone!). But I have noticed that some of the advice given is absolute rubbish!
One thing that seems to pop up alot lately is how customers are on different prices, and alot of people are saying there should be one fixed rate....Not possible!
I do agree that places such as Mobile home parks etc should be on a standard tarriff but it starts to get more complicated after that. Like anything the more you buy the better deal you are going to get! So a customer using just 1000ltrs a year is not going to get th same deal as a customer using 5000ltrs a year, also your tank size cn factor into this aswell....If you have a small 450ltr tank and use 2000ltrs a year then your going to have to have 4 to 5 eliveries in that year, but if you have a lrge 2400ltr tank then your only going to have 1 delivery which will save on distribution costs, and therefore saving you money! There are more factors that get weighed in on the equation but these are the main ones. Alot of the other comments have been regarding price increases and read how alot of people are unhappy and quoting it against Oil prices per barrell forgetting other factors within this awell!!!! Unlike Mains gas LPG has to be delivered to your door and Petrol prices have rose again which is a factor into this, im not saying this is the leading factor but it isnt as simple as some people on here seem to believe. In the end the LPG suppliers are running a business, and businesses have to make a profit or there would be no point! Did you know that each vehicle that delivers gas costs a minimum of £500,000 to purchase and that there lifespan is usually no more than 6 years!!
I am going to keep an eye out on this thread and if anyone has any questions to ask i will answer thm as honestly as I can...I am not going to reveal which supplier i work for or slate any suppliers I dont work for...Im simply here to be honest!!!!

OK LPG employee, here goes. You end your e mail with "i'm simply here to be honest" Please tell me why you have told these nice people that LPG tankers cost £500,000. They do not, they cost £150,000 AT MOST. How do I know? I PURCHASE THEM.You either like to discuss things you know nothing about or you are trying to con these people who by the way are not stupid and will see lies in an instant. It is this type of false information that just makes us all look bad.

Hate LPG says he has a solution, and to be fair he is not far wrong.
All customers could have the same price, and prices could be quoted on web sites. The competition commision spent four years coming up with their report and it was utterley useless. Infact the smaller user who may be on a mobile home park etc are now worse off than before the CC order. Hate LPG (that's a bit strong we are human..ish) may be interested in one fact though which is true. Most of the increases in the last 2 years are not by "The gas company" but by the companies we purchase gas from such as Connoco, BP Shell etc (The Oil Companies). These are the ones that the anger and effort should be directed at and the ones making the 1.5 million every minute. Also unfortunatley human nature and an eye for a bargain is also to blame. If my gas company was to publish its prices on the net and give everyone the same price, our competitors would just quote under us to get the business, human nature would may you think our prices were high and you would change. End result no company. All gas companies must be stopped by the competition commision quoting 36p ltr for new business and charged existing customers up to 66p Ltr. To confirm at the moment anything under 40p is an intro offer and it WILL change, anthing above 47p ltr is too much

JimBach

My recent experience with FloGas -mention the name makes my blood boil!!.
In anticipation of a price hike, ordered a top up on the 13th Sept. sure enough price hike letter 6ppl arrived a week later. A few days later received a phone call from FloGas credit control stating that my DD was to be increased from £52 to £124 monthly despite the fact that the previous year I had received a credit of £280.26 due to overpayment on the £52 DD. It is obvious that I am a light user, however despite my request that the DD be reviewed as condition 27 of the Gas Supply License, I was informed in no uncertain terms that I had no choice in the matter other than making a full payment for the amount outstanding and they would kindly reduce the DD to £100 monthly. I informed them that by the time I needed further supply I would be £900 in credit but this was not acceptable to them even though I am a pensioner on very modest income. After protracted correspondence with the company CEO they very reluctantly agreed to £100 DD without making full payment on the account. There is little doubt that I am being punished for the audacity in anticipating a price hike and the attitude of the customer service is the worst I have ever experience. I have 14 months to run on the present contract, under no circumstances will it be renewed. This simply must be the worst company in the universe.

The_Hornet

DAVID.T wrote: »

Hi Out of the 3 prices you have been quoted swapping to two of the suppliers would be a complete waste of time. I make no secret that I work for a gas company myself and cannot stress enough that the smaller the company the better, so I would say Listers out of the three quotes you have got. The sad fact of all this is that all 3 prices quoted to you are too cheap!!! Any gas company needs to be charging around 42/43p per ltr at the moment to make any profit. FACT The big boys quote a low price to get you in and then up your price over the two year contract. The smaller companies then have to quote a similar price, or lets face it most people will go to the one with the lowest starting price, they may not want to quote that low but if the dont they won't get any customers. Choose the one you feel happier with who have people with names you can speak to and have some type of trading relationship with.

Thanks for that David. As it happens I have since spoken with another supplier, ExtraFuel, and the VERY helpful salesman told me that they would have to charge me a similar amount to Countrywide (49.2p) as their prices would be going up next month. He went on to guess accurately who had quoted me 39.5p and said that this would last for 6 months and that afterwards I would be put on the companies National Pricing rate which was around 50p or more. He too recommended I talk to Listers again and suggested I think very very carefully before getting in to a 2 year contract with Shell, Flogas or Calor.

I shall be taking your advice (and his) and will be very careful before agreeing to a new contract with one of the "big boys". Thank you again.

DAVID.T_3

The_Hornet wrote: »

Thanks for that David. As it happens I have since spoken with another supplier, ExtraFuel, and the VERY helpful salesman told me that they would have to charge me a similar amount to Countrywide (49.2p) as their prices would be going up next month. He went on to guess accurately who had quoted me 39.5p and said that this would last for 6 months and that afterwards I would be put on the companies National Pricing rate which was around 50p or more. He too recommended I talk to Listers again and suggested I think very very carefully before getting in to a 2 year contract with Shell, Flogas or Calor.

I shall be taking your advice (and his) and will be very careful before agreeing to a new contract with one of the "big boys". Thank you again.

hi Again,
One thing to make sure is does the company who you choose actually have tankers that cover your area. Some companies say they cover your area but then use other suppliers to deliver it. This is fine when its warm but when its minus 10 guess who gets left till last.

One other thing I think you will find the Extragas man that guessed the companies who quoted you also looks at this site !!!

HateLPG

DAVID.T wrote: »

To confirm at the moment anything under 40p is an intro offer and it WILL change, anthing above 47p ltr is too much

Right ball park, but wrong numbers, I suggest. At the very "best" I would expect that the companies might be prepared to make zero profit in the first six months or so. They are not charities, and given the upward trajectory of Petrochemical prices, they do have to have some confidence that they will at very worst, recover any "losses" made on an intro offer and then make SOME profit (even if only tiny) over and above that.

For example, mitchy74 posted on 1st Nov this year that Shell were offering 32.5ppl, which is a GREAT deal. I happen to know that the Shell Standard Contract limits the price rise to 3ppl in any 6 month period. Now considering that it will be a 24 month contract, that means that according to the figures proposed by DavidT, Shell will not be charging a profitable price (41.5ppl) until month 18 of the 24 month contract (and that's assuming that LPG prices don't rise ANY higher over that period!).

Now nice as those lovely people at Shell might be, I find it very hard to accept that anyone at any level of seniority would be prepared to sign-off the supply of LPG to a small-scale domestic user at a loss for 75% of the contract life!

I think its fair to say that most, if not all of us welcome credible contributions from inside the industry, but to be helpful, they really do have to be just that: CREDIBLE. I'm not suggesting anyone should post commercially sensitive information, that clearly would be innapropriate (however much we'd all like to see the "real" figures ) but posting clearly incorrect "facts" (which we have seen from a number of so-called insiders) just adds to the noise on this forum, and insults the intelligence of the serious posters.

Come on guys - join in and contribute helpfully - we might snap a bit from time to time, but we don't bite. Honest! :-)

HateLPG

MaritzUK wrote: »

Hello all - my first post here!

Welcome to the Forum

MaritzUK wrote: »

They all seem to have fairly similar contract terms (i.e. price rises capped at 3p or 3.5p in each 6 month period) and standing charges within £25pa of each other, so I've got Shell coming out to do a survey next week.

I could be wrong - contracts change from time to time and I know the Calor retention team was having issues with this - but read and re-read any contract offer until your eyes bleed!

As of a couple of months ago, Calor had pulled a really sneaky little trick, and I'm sure they paid some consultant psychologist a fortune to work this one out: They expect everyone who knows about price caps to scan over the contract document looking for and reading the headline price (in this case, 3.5ppl) and as that is traditionally quoted as a price rise per six month period, take it at that.

Now the most recent Calor contract I have seen does indeed have 3.5ppl printed on the back - superfically in the same ballpark as Shell's 3ppl/6 months offer, so not apparently a deal maker/breaker.

But read it again...........

What that contract ACTUALLY said was 3.5ppl in any THREE month period - that's a WHOPPING 7ppl/ 6 months or 14ppl per year.

They may have reverted to 3.5ppl/6 months (I'd be suprised) but if they have, could somebody please post the relevant clause and offer date from a Calor contract offered in the last 6-8 weeks!

GrandadRob

It now seems apparent that THE GAS COMPANIES are reading this site, and are trying to divert attention away from the rotten deals out there, by trying to justify the prices charged. The water is being made muddy by "insiders" trying to be our friends. The real truth is being posted by real LPG consumers who are at the sharp end of the sharp practice being dealt out by "most" gas companies.
It is a great tribute to this site that we are attracting that kind of attention, and are obviously rattling their cages.

x-x_2

Wouldn't it be a useful if everyone reading this thread posted when they took out their contract, who they were previously with, who the are with now, what the original contract was and the price is now so here goes

Previous Flogas 41p/l
Changed Dec 2009
Monthly tank rental £5/m
To Shell @ 33p/l
Now 42p/l

So 2 tankfulls @ 33p/l and probably only require 1 more at 42p/p to give an average of 36p/l over the 2 year contract so as far as I am concerned it was worth it.

I would suggest that no one should haggle with their supplier and they should just switch (but not to Flogas !!!!)

And do yourselves a favour and improve your insulation

I do have one reservation about the new contract and that is the clause that says 'If the tank needs to be removed from the Premises when this agreement ends the we have a right to charge a removal charge. The current removal charge is £250 + VAT'

squelch41

Metered estate user. I am out of contract but others on the estate still locked in.
48p (!) litre - cant remember standing charge
FloGas

See "how much are you paying for LPG in the south" thread - - not allowed to post links as too new to the forum

squelch41

HateLPG

The_Hornet wrote: »

Listers 39.5p
Shell 39.5p
Calor 39.5p

Amazing similarity I thought!! Calor are also offering £100 of "free" gas over 2 years. Tank rental is £100 a year for all three.

Now THERE'S interesting - up until now the "standard" tank rental price for Calor and Shell has always been been £60 p.a. (A few are paying different, rates, but not many!).

GrandadRob wrote: »

Just come across another item to watch out for. I have been having some email correspondance with Carver Gases. Along the way, they mentioned their annual charge for tank rental.....£170 + vat. Thats a whopping 46p per day. Even those highway robbers Flogas only charged 15p... yes 15p per day.....£54 per year. So watch out for that one too.

Looks like this could be a worrying new trend, just as GrandadRob suggested :-(