My 4 year old son has been excluded from school!! End of my tether!!

Snaggles

I would agree with that Dippychick - whilst some of the issues mentioned are autism-spectrum-ish, they are also traits that are seen in neurotypical children too, and it would be impossible for anyone to make a diagnosis based on such limited information (hence why the process of getting a diagnosis often takes a year or more).

Explore all avenues, but keep an open mind - and remember that even if you do get a diagnosis, it's just a word on a piece of paper. He is still the same little boy that you love to bits (which is clear from your post). A diagnosis is just another tool that you can use to get help for him, it's not something to be afraid of.

redrach

My son is 8 now, but when he started school he was also badly behaved. he would bite and start fights with other children, i would talk to him but it never made a difference. The change came when he went into a different class, the change was immediate. he is now on a behaviour book which tells me what he has been like at school and 90% of the time its good.

i just wanted to say there is hope. i think its a disgrace that the school sent him home, they are supposed to be there to help. my sons behaviour book lets him know that i will be told of any incidents that happen and they will be a punishment (i have a high fridge and ive found the best thing is to put a favourite toy up there, out of reach, until he behaves). he is now blossoming, but i do worry about next year as he gets a teacher he has previously had and didnt deal with anything, just contacted me at work. his current teacher is excellent.

i hope what im saying helps and please dont jump to any conclusions regarding illnesses. hes 4 and probably just testing his boundaries!!

Good luck, things can only get better x

NUFCnutter

Ok I have been through this myself.

1. Is he bored in class. Does he feel (even at 4) that the work is below him. Ask him this weekend if he feels bored in class.

2. Does his hands hurt when he writes, its a sign of dyspraxia. My middle daughter has it, is hypermobile (which is not that noticeable in normal life) but is very bright but hates writing because it hurts her.

3. Is he obsessive with his play. Does everything need to be done in a certain way. Does he find imaginitive play hard. Is he really practical or literal? It may be a sign of aspergers or ASD/ADHD. Ask his teachers if they have noticed this.

Also ask why they feel exclusion is approprate for him. At 4 he is just a baby still, he should be allowed to express himself. Maybe he is just a creative learner, and needs more stimulation.

Best wishes.

craftyfox

my eldest had a few problems like this at school although he never got to the physical stage and he is now able to tell me how he feels - like when someone winds him up he can deal with it for so long but then he just loses his temper and lashes out :mad: when he was 6 (he's 9 ) we put him on extra strength omega 3 and it helped a great deal but he also got boared very easily and when he was tested at the age of 9 (year5) he has the reading ability of a 13 year old and english and maths the ability of a 12 year old, his teacher, who has been a great help, suggested books and some websites for him to use at home and with a little hard work at home we have improved the situation - but he can still lose his temper over silly little things but this is a normal part of growing up! i know you son is only 4 but there is a chance that he might be ready to be treated like a little boy rather than a toddler but either way i hope things get sorted out for the best and try not to worry

Feisty_Fairy

Sarahsaver wrote: »

BTW they cannot just 'send him home' they have in doing this broken the law by unofficially excluding your child. If they ask you to come and take him home because of behaviour you are not obliged to do so. They have done this to avoid putting an exclusion on their records, to look good for ofsted/local authority statistics.

They have previously sent him home and not recorded it, this time though its been done officially!

Feisty_Fairy

squoog wrote: »

Is there anything that you notice as 'different' about your son compared to your older one? Does he enjoy small world play, i.e. playmobil. How are his friendships?
I went through a very similar experience when my son was 4, the teacher had called the head in as she couldn't manage my son and he threw a chair at the head and kicked her! she basically told me that I should look elsewhere for a school for him! Needless to say, I didn't argue.
I kept him home for a few weeks until I had found a school I was happy with and they had a space. It did mean a 20 minute drive but best decision I could have made at the time.
My son is also very bright but was never good at conforming to others rules if he didn't want to, and never seemed to be in awe of adults.
I was told at the new school by his lovely first teacher that he had boundary issues and that we should change our parenting... We tried, he settled down in lessons but always had problems in the playground.
Eventually we moved house and he changed schools for yr 6. The new setting made it very clear that he did have some difficulties, mainly around social rules and behaviour. his teacher met with me and we agreed to have him assessed by CAMHS (child and adolescent mental health service) for aspergers syndrome.
He now has this diagnosis, though mild. He is bright and is on the schools gifted and talented register for some subjects. He is now 13, and the diagnosis has been helpful in lots of ways. For him to understand that he is different, but that is okay. For us as parents to stop blaming ourselves for his sometimes inappropriate behaviour and for school to recognise him as needing support in a group setting.
Some of the things you mention ie the pen, not joining in in music are familiar to me. Also the exclusion,my son was excluded very unfairly in yr 5 for 2 days. I was in pieces, I had never heard of a primary age child being excluded. I felt so ashamed and sorry for my son too. I cried for days every time I thought about it. We wrote a long letter to the govenors which will also go on his record although they backed the school. Since then, I mentioned this to his new school and it really wasn't a big deal to them at all.
I think a good school will see that your son needs support/management in a different way to what he has had so far.
Are you able to consider changing schools?
Finally, there is a simple scenario you could try with him, which might give you some information.
Show him a tube of smarties, ask him what is inside? Presumably he will say sweets. Then show him that there is in fact a pencil inside.
If you then ask him, 'if we show the tube to your brother what do you think he will say is inside?' If he answers 'a pencil' this illustrates that he has not yet developed a good ability to see the world through someone elses eyes. Most children will get this at around 4/5 yrs. Older children will say that the other person would expect smarties to be inside. If this skill isn't well developed yet it explains why he finds it hard to conform to rules when he doesn't want to.
Sorry for this outpouring! I do hope you get some good support for your son and be kind to yourself too.

Well i did it and he said smarties both times!:D

elisamoose

From the school perspective , they have all the children in the school / class to consider. A 4 year old trashing the Head's office is SERIOUS. I work with children in mainstream schooling who have behaviour problems and have rarely seen this kind of behaviour , especially in one so young. Other parents may also be concerned about the safety and welfare of their children.The Head has to take all this in to consideration when deciding how to handle such a tricky situation .
In the school I work at we would not usually formally exclude a child so young , and would normally ask the paretns to take them home for the day especially as the child is often distressed by this time. A formal exclusion is the only option if the parents will not agree to take a upset and angry child home voluntarily.
Until the school have an Ed Psych report , they may feel they have tried all that they can without direction from the experts. If outside intervention is needed or eventually a statement , then formal evidence of problems ( such as exclusions) will be needed.

Phatmouse

Attention?

Everyone is so quick to find a name for childrens 'behaviour' and then match a medication.

He is the youngest of three boys as I understand, both parents working maybe.

Sarahsaver

elisamoose wrote: »

From the school perspective , they have all the children in the school / class to consider. A 4 year old trashing the Head's office is SERIOUS. I work with children in mainstream schooling who have behaviour problems and have rarely seen this kind of behaviour , especially in one so young. Other parents may also be concerned about the safety and welfare of their children.The Head has to take all this in to consideration when deciding how to handle such a tricky situation .
In the school I work at we would not usually formally exclude a child so young , and would normally ask the paretns to take them home for the day especially as the child is often distressed by this time. A formal exclusion is the only option if the parents will not agree to take a upset and angry child home voluntarily.
Until the school have an Ed Psych report , they may feel they have tried all that they can without direction from the experts. If outside intervention is needed or eventually a statement , then formal evidence of problems ( such as exclusions) will be needed.

It is ILLEGAL to do such an 'unofficial' exclusion.
Also if any child needs help a record of exclusions, properly and legally maintained, may serve to help the child and their family get the help they need.

Feisty_Fairy

Phatmouse wrote: »

Attention?

Everyone is so quick to find a name for childrens 'behaviour' and then match a medication.

He is the youngest of three boys as I understand, both parents working maybe.

He is the youngest of 2 boys and yes we both work.

Feisty
xxx