T-Mobile price increase for 08xx numbers

Sid_Harper

unrelated but noticed on from a link posted above that it costs £1.50/mb to use the web from Europe but it's still £7.50 in the UK (yes, I know there's a daily cap of £1, but if you're just checking your mail occasionally, it would be well under that £1)

piggeh

Well, T-Mobile finally responded to my letter today, with a generic response surprisingly. They made no reference to the points I made.

Will be going down the CISAS route as well I expect, though will seek further advice from Ofcom tomorrow, and maybe Consumer Direct.

adjonline

Just wanted to add my voice as someone complaining. I've drafted a letter today on this issue, that will be in the mail to T-Mobile tomorrow. Unfortunately I'm suspecting this will take a while, and only be ultimately be resolved by CISAS, as T-Mobile have to much to lose by allowing terminations on this basis.

ray123

You could try contacting watchdog or some of the main newspapers.
There is nohing like a bit of bad publicity to make a company back down....

This thread is very good start for showing consumers what a budget company T-Mobile is...
I recently started a thread Do Not Join T-mobile - and this thread is also a clear example why!

Good luck to all of you!

This link might help -

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/phones/0870-say-no

Say no to 0870!

PheoUK

Just got this back via email:

Good morning Jxxxxxx
Thank you for responding to xxxxxxxx email. She's currently out of the office, I'm more than happy to reply on her behalf.

I'm sorry XXXXXXXX said you've got two phones on your account. I've checked and you've only got one which is 079xxxxxxxx.
You mentioned that we've doubled the cost of 08 numbers. We've aligned these with your price plan charge of 20p per minute.
Non-geographical numbers have never been a part of any allowance, I agree this would be a great idea for these to be incorporated to price plans.
"9.3 Where the Communications Provider intends to modify a condition in a contract with a Consumer which is likely to be of material detriment to the Consumer, the Communications Provider shall:
(a) provide the Consumer with at least one month's notice of its intention detailing the proposed modification; and
(b) inform the Consumer of the ability to terminate the contract without penalty if the proposed modification is not acceptable to the Consumer."
I've checked your bills printed over the past few months and I can see few calls made to 08 numbers.

We've not breached your contract in any way Jxxxxxx. We gave you notice that the charges would be increased on 9 June. We've not placed any blame on Ofcom. We followed their guidance to make calling these numbers easier. T-Mobile have a fixed rate for calling 08 numbers, this gives customers confidence to know how much they'll be charged before they call them.

I've ordered you the Code of Practice, this details our complaint process. You'll receive this in two to three days.
Thank you once again for getting back to me Jxxxxx. I'm sorry you're still unhappy with our response.

Kind regards
A customer relations person

Customer Relations
T-Mobile

Waiting on the complaints documentation. Any other suggestions?

Bunford

I sent an e-mail to the [EMAIL="cust.rel@t-mobile.co.uk"]cust.rel@t-mobile.co.uk[/EMAIL] address on the 12th July to state my intent to cancel as per the rights of my contract and to take that e-mail as my 30 days notice, meaning it would cease to be around 10th August. I got the automated response with reference number from T-Mobile.

I then telephoned T-Mobile after nearly 2 weeks and they claimde to have never received the e-mail, even though I had the automated response with reference number. I was advised to send a letter with recorded delivery so did so on the 24th July and included the original e-mail, reference number and additional comments after further advice.

Then, on the 31st July, I received an e-mail from a customer relations rep stating she was responding to the e-mail of 12th July that they previously told me on many calls to different customer service reps they'd not received. This e-mail seemed a generic response which clearly stated that 08 numbers were a "non-standard" charge and outside of my allowance and they could therefore amend the costs. She also claimed that I was on v55 of the contract and that if a change was done to the Price Plan Charge above the RPI then I would be able to cancel without charge.

With intrigue, I then scanned out v55 of the contract here: http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/content/pdf/tcs_cvn_55.pdf

Within reading the first few words I realised that the rep's e-mail may have stated exactly what I wanted her to. I immediately noticed, in their definitions that:

Price Plan Charges
charges are for the Price Plan Services which comprise the Monthly Charge for the Price Plan and the charges for Services

Services
services provided including the Price Plan Services and Additional Services

Additional Services
optional/extra Services which can be added to Your Account, the charges and terms and conditions for which are set out in Our 'What It Costs (Non Standard Charges"' booklet and Our customer literature

Therefore, going by their own definition in v55 of the contract, 08 numbers seem to be classed as a non-standard charges which falls into the Additional Services definition. Then the definition of Services clearly states that Additional Services are within the definition of Services. Then the definition of Price Plan Charges clearly states that Services are included.

Therefore, by following the bread crumb trail back through the definitions, it would seem that by their own definitions, 08 number are in fact included in their very own definition of Price Plan Charges.

I have replied to the e-mail from their rep received on 31st July. I sent my reply with the above arguement during the evening of 31st July. I telephoned their Customer Relations team during my lunch break on Monday 4th August to confirm receipt. The guy I spoke to said that they had received and opened the e-mail at 1.30pm on Friday 1st August. He also confirmed receipt of the letter I sent to them by recorded delivery. He then confirmed my contact number on the phone and said that the woman who'd previously e-mailed me would respond by phone during the afternoon. I explicitly stated that I was at work and may not be able to answer, and in that case for them to leave an answerphone message and to e-mail me. He said that was fine and I'd hear something during that afternoon.

It is now nearly 12:30pm on Wednesday 6th August and I still haven't had the reply I was promised on Monday. I will leave until Friday before I chase again.

piggeh

I received a reply recently stating that they would allow me to go to CISAS and arbitration

Currently weighing it up - I downgraded the contract to £15 per month so could buy it out for £90. I'll talk to them next week and see if they're willing to do a good deal on retentions. It's difficult for me to get a contract elsewhere, but if they're not reasonable then I'll terminate and go elsewhere on PAYG for a while and try and reclaim the £90 + this month's line rental through CISAS.

PheoUK

Bunford wrote: »

I sent an e-mail to the [EMAIL="cust.rel@t-mobile.co.uk"]cust.rel@t-mobile.co.uk[/EMAIL] address on the 12th July to state my intent to cancel as per the rights of my contract and to take that e-mail as my 30 days notice, meaning it would cease to be around 10th August. I got the automated response with reference number from T-Mobile.

I then telephoned T-Mobile after nearly 2 weeks and they claimde to have never received the e-mail, even though I had the automated response with reference number. I was advised to send a letter with recorded delivery so did so on the 24th July and included the original e-mail, reference number and additional comments after further advice.

Then, on the 31st July, I received an e-mail from a customer relations rep stating she was responding to the e-mail of 12th July that they previously told me on many calls to different customer service reps they'd not received. This e-mail seemed a generic response which clearly stated that 08 numbers were a "non-standard" charge and outside of my allowance and they could therefore amend the costs. She also claimed that I was on v55 of the contract and that if a change was done to the Price Plan Charge above the RPI then I would be able to cancel without charge.

With intrigue, I then scanned out v55 of the contract here: http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/content/pdf/tcs_cvn_55.pdf

Within reading the first few words I realised that the rep's e-mail may have stated exactly what I wanted her to. I immediately noticed, in their definitions that:

Price Plan Charges
charges are for the Price Plan Services which comprise the Monthly Charge for the Price Plan and the charges for Services

Services
services provided including the Price Plan Services and Additional Services

Additional Services
optional/extra Services which can be added to Your Account, the charges and terms and conditions for which are set out in Our 'What It Costs (Non Standard Charges"' booklet and Our customer literature

Therefore, going by their own definition in v55 of the contract, 08 numbers seem to be classed as a non-standard charges which falls into the Additional Services definition. Then the definition of Services clearly states that Additional Services are within the definition of Services. Then the definition of Price Plan Charges clearly states that Services are included.

Therefore, by following the bread crumb trail back through the definitions, it would seem that by their own definitions, 08 number are in fact included in their very own definition of Price Plan Charges.

I have replied to the e-mail from their rep received on 31st July. I sent my reply with the above arguement during the evening of 31st July. I telephoned their Customer Relations team during my lunch break on Monday 4th August to confirm receipt. The guy I spoke to said that they had received and opened the e-mail at 1.30pm on Friday 1st August. He also confirmed receipt of the letter I sent to them by recorded delivery. He then confirmed my contact number on the phone and said that the woman who'd previously e-mailed me would respond by phone during the afternoon. I explicitly stated that I was at work and may not be able to answer, and in that case for them to leave an answerphone message and to e-mail me. He said that was fine and I'd hear something during that afternoon.

It is now nearly 12:30pm on Wednesday 6th August and I still haven't had the reply I was promised on Monday. I will leave until Friday before I chase again.

I had similar, I'm going to use your point there I think. And also ask them why they haven't sent me the complaints documentation.... they seem to be doing a great job of stalling for time - which in some ways benefits me as it'll mean I can goto CISAS of my own accord because the three months will be up.

Bunford

If you reach deadlock, i.e. they refuse to discuss with you and simply state their position and refuse to move, I believe you can go straight to CISAS anyway (or I may be wrong)?

I now have a predicament as my initial e-mail to cancel my contract was sent on 12th July. Therefore, my 30 days notice expires today. Do I cancel my direct debit and stop using the phone today and get a new one or not? I do not want to carry on using and pay T-Mobile any more than I have to out of principle due to their profiteering and manipulation of loyal customers. However, T-Mobile refuse to give me a PAC code unless I pay £180 odd.

Anyway, as an update to the previosu posting, I spoke to someone from the Customer Relations Team today. I was on the phone for 35 minutes and had to finish the call as I got to work. I had to call as I still hadn't received a response from the call I made on Monday 4th August.

I explained the above point to the guy and he said it did seem that T-Mobile were trying to classify Price Plan Charge as Allowance, when according to their own definitions they are completely different things. He said I should get a written response within the next 7 days as there was a note on the system from the 4th saying I'd get a response in 10-14 days.

Another interesting point came up though. I discussed the "What It Costs" document with him. I noted that the version prior to May did not have 08 numbers in the "non-standard" charge section, but as of May they were moved to the "non-standard charge" column with notifying customers even though this documents clearly states it forms part of the terms and conditions. However, I was told he version he was looking at was marked as of 1st August 2008. I then said that yet again they have changed a document which forms part of the terms and conditions without notifying customers. He couldn't seem to argue against this as there had obviously been changes due to issuing a new document. I questionned the "08" bit, stating they were shifted from somewhere into the "non-standard charges", seemingly to attempt to create a loophole for the vulenrable customers ready for the 08 price hike.

He then read a bit to me which went along the lines of "08 numbers will be charged the same as the costs of 01 and 02 numbers from your inclusive price plan allowance". I then attacked this point with him and asked his opinion on whether that very wording implied that 08 number charges were dependent and linked to call plan charges. He agreed that the wording did seem to imply that.

I went to explain that basically the amount I get charged for 08 number is dependent and linked to my price plan as it will differ depending on which price plan I am on. Therefore, how can they argue that it is not linked to price plan charges?

He seem to be unable to respond to this and conceded the point and said that a response to this would be included within their written response. I will now wait until August 18th before I chase further.