T-Mobile price increase for 08xx numbers

CPhoenix

Dreaming wrote: »

Might be tricky, they made it public about changing T&C. Maybe this was all planned to stop people cancelling?

Evil Ba:mad:tards

SpongeBob_NoPants_2

Hey dude, this sounds good...i have been on my t-mobile contract for 14 months and now i can complain and get out?

P__G

This company has the worst customer service EVER - I will cancel as soon as I can and then go back to Virgin. Anyone get out of contract please post.

student100

These increases are really cheeky...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/18/t_mobile_doubles_prices/

Ofcom was intending to get 08 calls cheaper for customers (charged the same as national calls, which are included in call allowances). Instead T-Mobile has the cheek to charge 08 numbers at the same as national calls, but still excluded from allowances, and then say it's "to make things clearer for our customers... to follow the latest Ofcom guidelines".

Not sure if any customer would consider an increase of 100% or more to be "making things clearer"...


Do let us know if anyone has any success in canceling their contract (I wonder if writing to cancel by post would be more successful)?

deano27_2

Cheeky indeed, but what is the reasoning behind this?

It it linked to the following?

As of the end of Quarter 1 2008 the structure of charging for 0870 numbers is being changed.

This is the official link at ofcom that explains it:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/media/news/2006/04/nr_20060419 but essentially it means that the price that can be charged for an 0870 call is being reduced so that any revenue that companies were able to earn from the incoming calls ends as of that date. That means no income at all from your 0870 number!

CPhoenix

Anyone managed to get out of their contract yet?

kieranjones

Hello,

I too immediately investigated whether cancelling the contract was possible under the Terms and Conditions regarding the RPI and what not, and have just spoken to a very nice lady at T-Mobile to investigate.

Basically what it comes down too is that they are making a price change that is covered under clause 7.1.3 of the Terms and Conditions

We can suspend, change or withdraw Your Price Plan or Price Plan services. We will give You Written Notice one calendar month before We do so. The change will then apply to You once that notice has run out.

The termination clause 7.2.5.2 only applies if a change in 7.1.4 is of material detriment to the customer. The price change for 08x numbers is made under clause 7.1.3 as the price changes are to prices that are non-standard charges outside of the price plan.

The price plan charge is defined as being "Charges for the Price Plan Services which comprise the Monthly Charge for the Price Plan and the charges for Services once any allowance is used up.". Seeing as 08x numbers were never a part of the allowance then it isn't part of the price plan charges once allowance is used up. If this were the case and they could be considered part of the price plan then the notice period they are required to give would be because of clause 7.1.4 in which case once could terminate the contract because of material detriment.

So in summary it seems that unless someone can show that the charges for non-geographic numbers are part of the price plan, then you can't cancel the contract early because of the changes.

That is my take on this whole thing having just read the entirety of the Terms and Conditions and highlighted wildly. A shame because I hate being with T-Mobile and want a way out.

dvs

Surely the 'price plan' is the monthly charge and all other relevant charges associated with the said price plan? The fact that a tariff includes free minutes and highlights charges for only a small range of services (calls, texts, photo messages and voicemail) doesn't mean that any additional charges are irrelevant. Especially as 0870, 0845 and 0800 are very widely used - even by T-Mobile themselves.

I don't think T-Mobile have done themselves any favours by implying that the charges are following the latest OFCOM guidelines. Seems to me that T-Mobile fails to understand the use of the English language.

P__G

I suppose until someone either sues T-Mobile (or better still actually cancels their direct debit to T-Mobile and actually forces them to issue proceedings) we will never know!

This company are an absolute nightmare to deal with - I have had problem after problem with them. Perhaps they are getting me back for getting the Nokia N95 for £19.99 as a misprint - should have been £199.99 at the time

I'm still leaving them as soon as possible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

student100

kieranjones wrote: »

So in summary it seems that unless someone can show that the charges for non-geographic numbers are part of the price plan, then you can't cancel the contract early because of the changes.

OK... so what ARE charges for calling 08xx numbers classed as? I'm not a lawyer, but I can construct (and destruct) a logical argument... If you're interested, come with me on a difficult journey in logic (and let me know if you spot any flaws!)

Using T-mob's definitions (from T&Cs Version 55, March 2008):

A Charge is defined as "Price Plan Charges, charges for Additional Services and any other charge for any Service..."

A Price Plan Charge is a "charge for the Price Plan Services which compromise the Monthly Charge for the Price Plan and the charges for Services once any allowance is used up". So, assuming you've not used up your allowance [1], 08xx number charges are not Price Plan Charges.

A Service is 'services provided by [t-mob] to [customer] including the Price Plan Services and Additional Services'. As this is 'including' but not 'exclusively', then I guess 08xx charges could be Charges for a Service.

Additonal Services are 'optional/extra Services which can be added to your account...". It's probably debatable whether 08xx charges are charges for Additional Services, since they're only optional if you count making an 08xx call as 'opting in' to a 'Service'. [2]

A Price Plan Service is "inclusive Services supplied with your Price Plan, the charges and terms and conditions for which are set out in the "What It Costs" booklet for that Price Plan". So unless 08xx numbers are counted as 'inclusive' (which I would guess they're not, since you don't automatically pay them) they're not a Price Plan Service. [3]

A Price Plan is 'the name of the bundle of Services including any Allowance provided to [customer] by [t-mob] in exchange for [payment] of the Price Plan Charges'. (This is a somewhat circular definition... But since 08xx charges are not Price Plan Charges we can assume they're not part of the Price Plan.)

So, 08xx charges are Charges for a Service; but not for a Price Plan Service.

Now let's look at the bit about changes:

Section 7.1.1 of the contract says they can lower any Charge at any time (so they could lower the 08xx charges if they wanted to).

Section 7.1.2 is about Additional Services. IF you count 08xx calls as Additional Services (see above), then the current change could be made under this clause. But this conflicts with what the poster above wrote.

Section 7.1.3 is about Price Plans and Price Plan Services. We've determined above that 08xx calls are not Price Plan Services, so the current change can't come under this clause.

Section 7.1.4 is about increasing Price Plan Charges. We've determined above that 08xx calls are not Price Plan Charges, so the current change can't come under this clause.


So:
IF you determine that 08xx calls are Additional Services, the cancellation could fall under 7.1.2 of the contract. The 'cancellation with no fee' clause (7.2.5.2) does not apply, and T-mob are allowed to screw us over in this case.

However, if they're not Additional Services, the current changes would seem to fall outside of the scope of section 7.1. In that case (and I'm not a lawyer...) I guess you've not agreed to these charges, and t-mob would have to negotiate these charges and the changes to them independently of the agreement. This may or may not be contrary to point 9.14 (This Agreement is the whole agreement between [customer] and [t-mob]). If you're up for a challenge I guess you could try to make a case on this point...


The whole argument could fail on the following points:

[1] If you've used up your monthly allowance, do charges for 08xx become Price Plan Services? The line 'which comprises...' in the Price Plan Charges definition creates a conflict with the Price Plan Services definition...

[2] If you count making an 08xx call as opting in to a Service, then they become an Additional Service, and our case fails.

[3] That 08xx call Services are not inclusive in your price plan would perhaps go some way to strengthen the point that they're optional Services...but are they Additional?


Conclusion: it all comes down to arguing over definitions, as usual. As T-mobile probably have better lawyers than I ever could have, it's not worth the hassle...