T-Mobile price increase for 08xx numbers

dougz_2

sparks001 wrote: »

Having re-read the existing T&C's (v52), there does not seem to be any mention of me having to accept any new T&C's, nor any wording saying that I will automatically be seen to have accepted the new conditions if I don’t specifically reject them within a certain timescale, therefore, I think the original agreement will still be in force until I actually accept any new agreements. - what do you lot think?

Sorry but there was, it was v52 clause 4(g). As remedy, we could have cancelled for free before the new v55 came into effect, under v52 clause 2(c)(iii)(C). But, that was dependant on us recognising that v55 was detrimental before it came into effect, so it is too late for that now.

There still seem to be 3 avenues open with the new terms:

(1) Unfair contract: The new contract is unfair as it gave them unlimited power to increase charges without the customer getting any new rights in return.

(2) 08xxx increase is above RPI: Despite what they claim, the 08 numbers are part of the price plan charges, evidence being they are listed as a charge on the plan brochures http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/help-and-advice/our-brochures/ and thus should be covered by the RPI clause.

(3) Failure to notify of a T&C change: This is a new one that I just found, and follows from there refusal to accept (2). It seems they secretly tried to move 08xx from the plan charge category to additional category. This is my evidence of this:

Regarding their claim that 08 are "non-standard charges" covered by that document http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/content/pd...onstandard.pdf, I have just noticed something very sneaky. The version I downloaded 15 May did NOT list 08 in section 2, so they were not a "non-standard charge". The current version they have retrospectively added 08 to the list without giving any indication of a change to the document. The title is exactly the same, and it still says "correct as at 1st May 2008" on the back, which is of course untrue as 08 were not included until some time after 15th May.

So customers were not told that 08 had been added to the non-standard category, despite that document forming part of the T&C. This is quite apart from any actual price change, it was a change to the T&C that has come into effect, at some date between 15th May and today, that customers were not told about. This makes them in breach of 2.11.2, which is a valid reason for free cancellation.

kimberley111

does anyone know how i can cancel my t mobile contract anyway,i have another year to go but want the iphone:rotfl: when it comes out next month.
any tips?

dougz_2

dvs wrote: »

Shame Watchdog isn't on. That usually does the trick.

We could try Working Lunch, they love this sort of thing for their Consuming Issues section. They usually interview a complainant, so if someone fancies getting themselves on TV this could be your chance. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/working_lunch/6034907.stm

dvs

kimberley111 wrote: »

does anyone know how i can cancel my t mobile contract anyway,i have another year to go but want the iphone:rotfl: when it comes out next month.
any tips?

I called T-Mobile on Friday and was told that they are not allowing any customers to leave contracts early as their legal team as certain their contracts are 'watertight'.

I personally feel they have been very sneaky as they knew when the introduced the new terms that they were going to increase the prices (announcing the increases just a few days after the new terms came into force).

alnsv1000s

They have to pay for reducing European Data costs from £7.50 per MB to £1.50 per MB as of next month.

Also they will be reducing the cost of texting from abroad by 15p per text from the end of August.

Give with one hand and take away with the other.

http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/T-Mobile_to_cut_data_roaming_charges_by_80_percent.html

Butlers1982

Ive just called in im on flex 35 and have been now for 2.5 years- they couldnt give a monkeys, all he did was read to me the changes- i asked them to put it into writing he said fine no problem.
I asked if this consituted a change and he read something about it- i explained i wasnt happy and he gave me the cancelation fee price- i said send the letter and ill cancel in the next few days.

Anyone managed to get out? the only reason i want out is because i need a business line and they will not let me come out of this one to start a new one, with them

kieranjones

I guess we're just going to have to accept that the changes are unfair, they aren't good changes (at least not for us) but ultimately T-Mobile are going to get away with it as they clearly have made sure they know what they can do with their Terms and Conditions and made 100% sure that people can't leave because of the change.

I will write an angry letter and complain to them about it, a complaint to Ofcom for good measure (not that it will achieve anything) and then I'll just pay the cancellation fee out of principle just so I can leave. I've removed Web 'n' Walk to reduce the monthly amount, and thus reduce the remaining months to pay which will help things no doubt, ah well. Such is life!

I suggest to anyone in future, take out your phone contract through Carphone Warehouse, then take out the Carphone Warehouse insurance policy from LifeLine. That has something called Air Time Protection which means if you want you can use the insurance to cancel a contract early (After 6 months anyway) without penalty. I've done it three of four times now with no increase in premium or whatever, they protest and don't like it but will let you. Only available through Carphone though. I made the mistake this time of getting it direct from T-Mobile, stupid me.

piggeh

Haven't posted in this, although I did post on hotukdeals who were debating the subject as well. Today I contacted ofcom to ask what their opinion was. They stated that T-Mobile must comply with Ofcom's general conditions as a mobile operator, and specifically general condition 9.3 which states the following:

"9.3 Where the Communications Provider intends to modify a condition in a contract with a Consumer which is likely to be of material detriment to the Consumer, the Communications Provider shall:
(a) provide the Consumer with at least one month's notice of its intention detailing the proposed modification; and
(b) inform the Consumer of the ability to terminate the contract without penalty if the proposed modification is not acceptable to the Consumer."

Ofcom recommended that I write to T-Mobile with the above and to state that:"This matter is to be treated as a formal complaint regarding contract and general conditions, specifically general condition 9.3"

They also gave me a case reference to quote. I recommend everyone who wishes to cancel their contract give ofcom a call, get a case reference number, and write the above to T-Mobile. The general conditions are not within the T-Mobile T&Cs but are terms they sign up to as a mobile phone operator, and which they have to adhere to.

Contact details for ofcom are Monday-Friday between 09:00 and 17:00; 020 7981 3040 or 0300 123 3333.

You won't be able to argue this point over the phone, as all the customer service teams have briefing points from which they just garble the same old nonsense about section 4.1, even though this T&C is clearly a breach of the above.

I also included a paragraph or two regarding unfair contract terms, stating that they were in breach of schedule 2, paragraph 1, of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, which state the following:

"Schedule 2, paragraph 1, states that terms may be unfair if they have the object or effect of:
(l) providing for the price of goods to be determined at the time of delivery or allowing a seller of goods or supplier of services to increase their price without in both cases giving the consumer the corresponding right to cancel the contract if the final price is too high in relation to the price agreed when the contract was concluded."

Notably, under the OFT's own guidance notes, it states:

"12.1 The OFT's objections to variation clauses generally are set out under Group 10. If a contract is to be considered balanced, each party should be sure of getting what they were promised in exchange for providing the 'consideration' they agreed to provide. A clause allowing the supplier to increase the price – varying the most important of all the consumer's contractual obligations – has clear potential for unfairness

12.2 Any purely discretionary right to set or vary a price after the consumer has become bound to pay is obviously objectionable. That applies particularly to terms allowing the supplier to charge a price on delivery of goods that is not what was quoted to the consumer when the order was placed. It also applies to rights to increase payments under continuing contracts where consumers are 'captive' – that is, they have no penalty-free right to cancel."

You may or may not wish to include the second arguement - Ofcom did not quote it but it seems to fit this case pretty well - notably that they increase prices once we are 'captive' and don't allow us to cancel without penalty.

you should give T-Mobile two weeks to respond I was told, before progressing further.

Let me know if this is of help to anyone and if they're writing with the above points, as it will no doubt help our case gain some attention at ofcom if we are all on the same wavelength.

student100

The Ofcom T&Cs would seem to hold, but the unfair contract terms regs probably don't, because you've not bound to pay for 08xx numbers until you make an 08xx call. But you could probably argue that if you regularly call 08xx numbers they are considered a material part of the entire package.

I look forward to see what happens with this (but afraid I'm sheepishly going to wait to see what everyone else's results are before pursuing this further myself...).

kieranjones

piggeh, that's excellent work, I hadn't got around to calling Ofcom yet, was going to use that as a threat! I sent a letter off with an almost idiot proof argument too them last week and I believe that they attempted to call at 9am this morning. If they argue I will quote this at them also, I shall give Ofcom a call though to get my own reference number.

I reckon that given enough persistence they will give up, there are so many arguments for them actually allowing customers to terminate the contract I can't see what they have to go on.

I've called them so many times regarding this, I keep getting those customer care survey calls to follow up how well they did, they keep not doing very well! haha.