bit of advice about teenager who's lying and stealing

Oldernotwiser

Of course you're entitled to your point of view, we all are. I just objected to your describing my comment as harsh in relation to the post that it was a reply to.

For the sort of young person I'm describing, it's pretty good to get into your twenties without a criminal record, having passed some exams and now in a proper job, so perhaps my parenting skills weren't that flawed. I don't even think our lad was any worst than the OP's daughter, that's why I was making the comparison.

I agree that praising the positive can work, but only if there is anything positive to praise. Things got so bad at one point that the social worker suggested that we praise the fact that he was holding his cutlery correctly. That's the level of stupidity I'm talking about. I already said that unconditional love may exist for a child that's yours by birth ( on the other hand, if your son ended up as Fred West or Ian Brady, perhaps not) but if my husband were to treat me badly my love for him would die(or at least fade) and I think that this is the same for a child who's not yours by birth. I just think that in most cases we love people more the better they treat us and sometimes that's a useful lesson to learn.

RoxieW

Apologies - oldernotwiser - I didnt realise that the child wasnt yours biologically and that you fostered. I was sharp and I apologies. It's just my frustration at this thread I'm afraid. I have utmost respect for you as a foster carer - however, I do disagree with some of your suggestions and what I'd class as the 'hard line' way of thinking.

I firmly believe that this girl is doing nothing more than the next 'normal' teenager in her acting up. But she has a heck of a lot to deal with and I'm sure feels alone in the world. Piling punishment upon punishment will be counter productive I think and push her further in the 'bad' direction.

I dont have teenage children, yet - but I do remember very clearly being a teenager and feeling like the outsider. She will grow out of the stealing, lying, mouthing off etc - I did! The feelings of loneliness and rejection however will grow with her. This is what needs addressing - the bigger picture. Otherwise she's going to grow up into an insecure, misplaced young woman, who finds friendships/relationships difficult as she doesn't trust that anyone could actually like her.

Uniscots97

Thanks Oldernotwiser, you and a few others do see where we're coming from.

I had a nice chat (very long) with someone from Parentline plus, and it will be the first of many. She said I and my OH needed to stop beating ourselves up about this and being realistic it won't be solved overnight. She did tell us we shouldn't reinforce bad behaviour at all. She thinks at least some of the problem stems from the fact the girls she hangs about with do not have boundaries or get grounded etc if they do wrong and she can't see why if she does wrong why she gets grounded etc. She's also advised not going back on agreed punishments i.e. if we say she is grounded for a week keep it at a week, but if she shows remorse and says sorry and shows positive behaviour then we can do other things within the home such as play a game or watch a film. She's also suggested keeping a diary (us that is) of what's going on when she has a good day and a bad day. She's also suggested (once she's not grounded) asking her if she'd like to go to the cinema and invite my godson too (but let her know this and say you'd like to do it so his parents get an evening out and does she mind), let her see that people her age outside her usual group are 'normal' teenagers. There's too much to mention here but at least I know we're not alone with this. I do wish for our youngest's sake that I could click my fingers and make it all better but talking to that lady this morning I realise that won't happen it is going to take hard work on all sides.

Oldernotwiser

RoxieW wrote: »

Apologies - oldernotwiser - I didnt realise that the child wasnt yours biologically and that you fostered. I was sharp and I apologies. It's just my frustration at this thread I'm afraid. I have utmost respect for you as a foster carer - however, I do disagree with some of your suggestions and what I'd class as the 'hard line' way of thinking.

I firmly believe that this girl is doing nothing more than the next 'normal' teenager in her acting up. But she has a heck of a lot to deal with and I'm sure feels alone in the world. Piling punishment upon punishment will be counter productive I think and push her further in the 'bad' direction.

I dont have teenage children, yet - but I do remember very clearly being a teenager and feeling like the outsider. She will grow out of the stealing, lying, mouthing off etc - I did! The feelings of loneliness and rejection however will grow with her. This is what needs addressing - the bigger picture. Otherwise she's going to grow up into an insecure, misplaced young woman, who finds friendships/relationships difficult as she doesn't trust that anyone could actually like her.

Thanks for the apology and I'm sure we can agree to differ on some of the other stuff. However, I do think that this girl's behaviour sounds far worst than "normal" and many kids don't just grow out of it. If you've behaved like this yourself then you won't think it that bad but I really don't think that most teenagers behave like this; the race would die out if they did!

RoxieW

most teenagers I knew, and have known since - have done all the usual getting drunk, smoking (not for me, but I went through a shoplifting faze), telling fibs about where they are or where their going/who they're with etc, experimenting with boys/unsuitable crushes, fallings out with siblings/family/friends, generally being antisocial, experimenting with drugs and sex - it is all fairly standard teenage 'right of passage' stuff. I do think that parents who dont think their teen gets up to anything like this, either has an exception to the rule child or more likely just hasnt got a clue what their child gets up to.

Believe it or not - I was one of the 'good kids' at my school. I was very hard working, studious, polite, went to lots of after school classes, was captain of house and quiz team and as I've said, got the most gcse's my school had ever had. The bad kids were the ones who bullied, beat up, hospitalised people, generally prayed on the weak, experimented with sex and drugs whilst at school or with much older men and generally didnt give a stuff what anyone in authority said.
In my opinion, the girl in question is one of the 'weak' that is getting prayed on and I do agree that the more she can be encouraged to ditch this gang and find new friends the better.

Maybe the new school could be the opportunity for the new start - wipe the slate clean and let her start a fresh.

Not that I'll be happy when my boys go through it but hey - got that to look forward to!

Lunar_Eclipse

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Thanks for the apology and I'm sure we can agree to differ on some of the other stuff. However, I do think that this girl's behaviour sounds far worst than "normal" and many kids don't just grow out of it. If you've behaved like this yourself then you won't think it that bad but I really don't think that most teenagers behave like this; the race would die out if they did!

Of course they do. I wonder if people are forgetting what they were like possibly? Did you not have any friends who behaved in this way, looking back? And if the answer is 'no', is your memory in good honest shape?

I'm a 70's child and had a relatively affluent, two parent, supportive, middle class, private school upbringing and this all seems quite normal to me. We all went to university and became vets, doctors, lawyers, teachers, accountants or nurses it seems, before having families. I'm not saying I was that bad. I certainly never got grounded. But I knew of people who behaved in this way and they were from the 'right' side of the tracks so to speak. My own background may help explain why I am definitely on the side of the child in this instance. Because I think she has been dealt a rather poor hand with her family (& friends)! I had two close friends who were somewhat f'd up simply because their parents divorced! A very common occurance, yet it still had a huge negative effect on these people. I firmly believe that adults needs to act as the adults in these situations (not as bullies which is often the interpretation). And then hope that the child follows suit. Which is usually the case.

Physical violence, rioting, absent parents setting dreadful examples, serious drug issues, alcohol addiction, prostitution, pregnancy, going AWOL etc are another matter. A bit of lying (usually for privacy) and penny pinching from your family and a lot of rule breaking is par for the course I'm afraid.

That's not to say we shouldn't send disapproving messages to our offspring for doing such things, just that we need to take comfort in the fact that it is entirely normal. And that this behaviour will (usually) come to an end. Quite quickly. It's just a (horrible) phase. A bit like the sleepless night crying baby one, but for a bit longer!

Having written all of that, if your experiences are vastly different, then you should count your blessings. :A

splishsplash

unixgirluk wrote: »

Thanks Oldernotwiser, you and a few others do see where we're coming from.

I had a nice chat (very long) with someone from Parentline plus, and it will be the first of many. She said I and my OH needed to stop beating ourselves up about this and being realistic it won't be solved overnight. She did tell us we shouldn't reinforce bad behaviour at all. She thinks at least some of the problem stems from the fact the girls she hangs about with do not have boundaries or get grounded etc if they do wrong and she can't see why if she does wrong why she gets grounded etc. She's also advised not going back on agreed punishments i.e. if we say she is grounded for a week keep it at a week, but if she shows remorse and says sorry and shows positive behaviour then we can do other things within the home such as play a game or watch a film. She's also suggested keeping a diary (us that is) of what's going on when she has a good day and a bad day. She's also suggested (once she's not grounded) asking her if she'd like to go to the cinema and invite my godson too (but let her know this and say you'd like to do it so his parents get an evening out and does she mind), let her see that people her age outside her usual group are 'normal' teenagers. There's too much to mention here but at least I know we're not alone with this. I do wish for our youngest's sake that I could click my fingers and make it all better but talking to that lady this morning I realise that won't happen it is going to take hard work on all sides.

That's great. I hope you feel like you're getting some support from them.

I wish you the best of luck! Please keep us posted on how you get on

Oldernotwiser

Lunar_Eclipse wrote: »

Of course they do. I wonder if people are forgetting what they were like possibly? Did you not have any friends who behaved in this way, looking back? And if the answer is 'no', is your memory in good honest shape?

One girl from our year group got pregnant at 17 and we were all appalled!
Yes, I did have a couple of friends who weren't on the straight and narrow but that doesn't mean that it was normal; they were the exceptions. I think that we were too scared of what would happen if we went astray and what our parents would think and do. They were gentler times.

Zazen999

Hi

I've been reading this over the last few days and really feel for you and her. I'll keep my thoughts brief.

1 - no matter what has happened since; the fact that her mother has rejected her must be churning her up inside, and will probably be a major reason that she has latched onto people who are obviously [to you] playing her.

2 - basics: reward good behaviour and ignore bad. Any attention that she gets from bad behaviour is reinforcing any feelings about being useless, and that has to stop before she can turn things around. As a family you need to all agree to do this together and stop reacting to the naughtiness; it's as basic as that.

Chances are she'll come to her senses, and all of us learn by our own mistakes; you can only be there for her when it gets too much.

moggylover

unixgirluk wrote: »

I know what you're saying Lunar but as I said in another post she got rewarded for good behaviour so why keep on with the negative behaviour, when all that happens is she loses priviledges?

I suspect because the rewards do not come often enough! And that is not a criticism of the girl - nor you - we all do it. My kids are being good - I ignore them - they play up - I respond! Saw the light at Parenting Classes - mine are MUCH better now. Rewards need to be seen a lot - especially at first when trying to repair bad behaviour cycle. Sounds daft, but get a sort of star chart - and make her "earn" pocket money! Each star is worth (down to you - and how much you can afford) towards a sum at the end of the week - and you DO have to ignore minor infractions - cos it is the big things you want to resolve.

This lass has not had it easy - mother deserted her, Dad critical - she will be so caught up in her own unhappiness that she will not be able to see the wood for the trees - that is for the adults to do.

Choose ONE thing you really hate her doing - just one, and make it achievable for her to stop doing it - that IS her fathers responsibility, only the adults can change the dynamics of this relationship and I suspect she desperately wants them to change - and her short-lived efforts do suggest this. Then move on to the next one - it will never happen overnight -
but it is worthwhile in the end.

I had to ignore screaming tantrums from my eldest son - for weeks on end! OK he was only 9 or 10 - but it was horrible. I just totally ignored him whilst he ranted - then when he calmed down I would wait a few moments and give him a hug and tell him how lovely he was when NOT ranting - and play with him for a while! Even sometimes when I was so exhausted that strangling him seemed a better idea! VERY gradually we moved into another sort of relationship - where I hugged him often - and told him he was lovely - and tried very hard never to be critical! The tantrums lessened - he earnt stars (not always totally deserved - but any little improvement was rewarded) and he added them up with me later in the week to see what he had. I would quietly put a red mark on the same chart for any really bad behaviour - and we would discuss that only the once - at adding up time - when he began to see that that had cost him rewards!

Parenting has never been easy - and these days we seem particularly badly prepared for it - probably cos we have less time to spend on the job. LOTS of good comments build self-esteem: but your daughter does not seem to have been able to get many of these - so she will (as all kids do) settle for the attention of bad attention rather than do without at all.

I think you have tried hard: but please do not give up! I think all you need to do extra is to go really over-board on any praise (and insist that OH does as well) for any good behaviour - and make hugs a big part of the reward - especially Dad - cos I think she is desperately trying to get his attention (and may even be scared that he will go off like her mum did)! My kids are both pretty well behaved now - but they do knick things from the fridge or the cupboards - as do most of their mates in their own homes. I get p**** about this as well - their Dad doesn't - he just says - ok, so they get less when it gets shared out - or, well, don't buy it next week then!