[TEXT DELETED BY FORUM TEAM] "Shopper Discount & Rewards"

Geordie38_2

Hi,

i took the direct action approach and said that it was unlawful - IT IS NOT A Direct Debit, they've simply been charging me on or around the 23rd - so it didnt show in my DD's hence why i missed it!!! Been promised a full refund of £120 no apology and a 'standard' copy of a sign up page. Got email to confirm.... wait and see!

Geordie38_2

Martin- you need to flag this in the run up to Xmas as it will catch out a lot of people!

Dustykitten

Geordie38 wrote: »

Martin- you need to flag this in the run up to Xmas as it will catch out a lot of people!

I completely agree - I'll see if one of the BGs can help

fozmcfc

Geordie38 wrote: »

Hi,

i took the direct action approach and said that it was unlawful - IT IS NOT A Direct Debit, they've simply been charging me on or around the 23rd - so it didnt show in my DD's hence why i missed it!!! Been promised a full refund of £120 no apology and a 'standard' copy of a sign up page. Got email to confirm.... wait and see!

Well it still must have been coming out of your bank account DD or not. So they have been taking out £10 out of your bank account for a year and you hadn't notice. I hope this has made you realise you should check your full bank statements.

fozmcfc

Dustykitten wrote: »

I completely agree - I'll see if one of the BGs can help

This has already been in the national press and on several other websites.

Basically yes there are a lot of people claiming they never signed up for it. But there are many who say they unwittingly (i.e. didn't bother to read the T&C's) signed up for it.

Then there are no doubt millions like me, who have purchased from several companies affliated with the scheme, who haven't been charged a single penny by them. This is quite possibly because we have never clicked on the link or if we have, we have read the T&C's and thought no thank you.

In other words, it is far from cast iron that people are automatically signed up for it. I don't actually believe that anyone press or website has actually made these acusations.

marleyboy

Yet you are so WRONG!, of which TWICE I have already posted exactly how this SCAM works, do you think its just some coincidence that 99% of these VICTIMS were none the wiser???

Do I really have to dig up my post for you to understand how they pull this scam AND exactly why they got sued in the US courts over this SCAM???

People are not stupid, or neglectful or ignorant, the T&C only change once your in, and clicking cancel wont help you, you have automatically signed up.

It infuriates me when people like you proclaim this was the fault of all these members, without even bothering to look into it yourself..........

For the THIRD time.......

marleyboy

SD&R pay each company a cut depending on how many customers click on their link via a company, we are not just talking Pizza hut - which is far worse, as customers can easily assume its a pizza offer. Big companies, from Airlines to Train lines are involved.

A good example of companies becoming aware can be found here http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...y-1628626.html

However in respect of the Data Protection Act - if a company wants your personal and financial information they must ask you for it, not get it from a third party.

Then there is the T&C relating to the various companies promoting them, who as far as they are aware you have read and understood the following.

Shopper Discounts & Rewards is a special rewards promotion offered after making a transaction at our website. The promotion offers a 30-day free trial in Shopper Discounts & Rewards with all the money saving benefits they have to offer, as well as a £10.00 cash back voucher to be used on your next purchase at our website.

If you have signed up for Shopper Discounts & Rewards you would have entered your home address and specific billing information. Additionally you would have created and entered a password for your membership, and also clicked a button to accept the membership.

If you have any further questions, please contact our partner, Shopper Discounts & Rewards at 0808 234 1539 and they will be more than happy to assist you.

This is up until you have clicked the SD&R link, and entered out of the various companies onto SD&R site where that part of the T&C suddenly becomes;

"By entering my email address as my electronic signature and clicking YES, I have read and agree to the Offer and Billing Details and authorise Interflora.co.uk to securely transfer my name, address and credit or debit card information to Shopper Discounts & Rewards for billing and benefit processing."

But by this time, you have already signed up, no matter what you click. Here is a perfect example from this very thread;

And here is a letter I sent to petplanet:

"In October I ordered some cat food from you. I do a lot of shopping online, including pet food of course, and always buy whenever I see the best offers, which happened in one occasion so far with your company. However, because of something which has happened, I may cancel your company from the list of my favourite shops in the future. In November, until February, a company called Shopper Discounts and Rewards, P.O. Box 454, St Albans AL4 0YE, has debited £10 every month from my credit card. It appears, on researching their website, that I am said to have signed up to this monthly debit at some point and am now a "member". I would not knowingly have done so and, so far as I am concerned, I have not. I have certainly not knowingly authorised the £10 monthly debit from my card account. Especially with an account that I have only used in one single occasion, when I purchased the cat food through you. If I sign up for any monthly payment, I would use my other account which I use regularly. As a matter of fact, I went overdraft as I only had a few pounds in that account, the very few money I spent with it, was by purchasing the cat food with you.
Can you explain how this may have happened? My suspicion is that, somehow, my details have been passed to Shopper Discounts and Rewards by you. I'd imagine you will deny this, however you might not be aware that shopperdisounts may be able to access private data when the transaction is still open (namely, their pop-up window opens at the moment of purchase, so there might be some encrypted data that they might be able to access, such as my debit card). Be sure that I have never disclosed my debit card details, even less, have I ever authorised to take £10 every month from my account (the one I used only once with you, where there WAS very little money), for a non-service such as theirs. At most, I have signed up with a secondary email address (one that I only use for unimportant registrations) to receive their coupon. As it was through your company, I kind of trusted them, I never sign up with unknown companies, especially those that promise free products, huge discounts etc. I am a careful and experienced web surfer.
If you haven't done it yet, I strongly exhort you to contact this partner of yours and cancel any agreements you might have. Please be aware that I don't want any of my details to be disclosed to them (you can refer to this email, but not to who wrote it, I'm still waiting for all my money to be refunded, if they don't want my lawyer to contact them).
Be also aware that you'll find a lot of complaints online against shopper discount and their frauds.
Should there be any wrong development of the story (such as they don't pay me back my money, or delays whatsoever) I will intend to sue that company, in which case it might result in you having to provide convincing evidence that my debit card details have not been knowingly or unknowingly provided by you. I hope this won't be the case."

And the reply;

Thank you for your recent email regarding Shopper Discounts and Rewards. Further to your comments and emails we have had from a couple of other customer with similar experiences we have taken the decision to remove the programme with immediate effect from our website. Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience caused.

There are two ways in which the Shopper Discounts and Rewards can be implemented the first being that when a customer agrees to sign up to the programme there credit card details are sent automatically - we do not and have never used this method.
The second way and the method we use is that if a customer wishes to sign up to the programme then they must enter their credit card details again. We do not pass on any details to Shopper Discounts and Rewards directly without the customer signing up for the programme.

Once again please accept my apologies and should you wish any further clarification on this please do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind Regards
Kirsty

There are only 2 ways that our details could be passed on -

1) By the original company that we purchased from passing on our financial details to Shopper Discounts presumably for some sort of financial reward.

2) Shopper Discounts somehow snooping on the financial transaction.

Somehow a very low level of consent is required to start up the monthly payment - You do it by entering your e-mail address twice, or by pressing Yes twice.

In all cases the assumption is made by us - "I have not put in my financial details so all I am signing up for is a one off discount should I purchase from the referring site again"

Yet it has also been reported that if you've been caught by the Shopper Discount and savings co.uk scam, to check your pc for their software. It's called savingsuk.exe and savingsuk.pf.
Most likely you'll find it in a folder called savingsuk in C:\Programs folder.
In the folder there is a Readme file which says you can uninstall the program by going the usual route: Start\Settings\ControlPanel\Add or Remove programs where it's listed under SavingsUK.
If you go this route and click on Chnge/Remove you will get a popup with WARNING! in large letters against deleting the file. If you ignore it and try to delete the folder, it will disappear from the list of programs BUT IT HAS NOT BEEN REMOVED!!!
Trying to remove it by blanking the ReadOnly box on Profiles/Attributes doesn't work -- nor does attempts to Wipe it or Shred it.
I found the only way to get rid of it was to move it to a blank disk on the A-drive and then either deleting it from the disk or formatting it.

Remember to go to Start\Run and enter regedit. Then click on Edit\Find and enter Savingsuk. It finds only one entry. click on the containing folder (in the left column) and click on Delete.

Which is very very naughty if it is the case (I dont know if that is factual).

Another interesting article is http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/money/...ckefeller.html where they STILL claim "Credit card and personal details had to be entered".

One case (also in this thread) didnt even involve an online transaction as follows;

Quote:
The shoes I wanted were out of stock so the assistance advised that they can order them and they will be sent directly to me, however in order to do so I need enter my details (address etc), on to their computer, which I. No harm there, but this was a simple, in store, online terminal (the till in fact). There were no tick boxes, I did not visit/sign up to the website etc and so there was NO money off vouchers offered for me to accept. My details were simply passed on to SDR without ANY authorisation and bang, there goes my money each month.

So who is to blame? Does a company willingly pass on such details to them, or do they somehow sabotage them.

An interesting forum is by fotobox, who after numerous complaints felt compelled to discuss it and claim;

"PhotoBox wants to make it clear that we do not sell or transfer any of your details to Shoppers Discount and Rewards, that level of integration does not exist on our site.

It’s not automatic, the only way a person’s details can be entered into the Shopper Discount and Rewards scheme, if this person re-enters all their details on the Shoppers Discount and Rewards website and hits the confirmation button that enrolls them in such scheme.

From our perspective we are being completely transparent and honest."

They did seem oblivious to it, but opted to remove them from their site, you can find this here;
http://blog.photobox.co.uk/shopper-d...page-1#comment

Of course there is a lot more revealing information about this company here;
http://www.callferret.com/800-889-8776.html

And if we are to boycott all the companies that promote them, we need to include; -800-flowers.com, 123inkjets.com, A & E videos, A1Books sellers, AccStation.com, AirportParkingReservations.com, AllPosters.com, Amazon.com, AmericanGreetings.com, Americart, AmericaWest, BARNES AND NOBLE, BHphoto.com, BIDZ.com, bigceramicstore.com, Bizrate.com, Broderbund, BrylaneHome.com, Buy.com, campusfood.com, Carol Wright Gifts Cataloge, CasualLivingUSA.com, Chadwick’s, CheapTickets.com, ChoiceHotels.com, Classmates.com, COLLECTIONSETC.COM, ColoradoGiftBaskets.com, columbiahouse.com, ComputerGeeks.com, CoolSavings.com, DeepDiscountDVD.com, DELTA.COM, DrLeonards.com, Drugstore.com, dvdmarketplace.com, EBGames.com, eCost.com, eGreetings.com, etix online, Expedia.com, Fandango.com, Freecovers.net, FTD.com, gamefly.com, Geeks.com, Gevalia, Haband Online, Half.com, Hotels.com, invitationsbydawn.com, JC Whitney, JGHOOK, Joann.com, Juno, kingsizedirect.com, Lane Bryant, lernercatalog.com, Lillian Vernon, MapBlast, Marketworks.com, Movies.com, MovieTickets.com, MUSICSPACE.COM, MyFamily.com, MyLotto, Mypoints.com, MyRatePlan.com, Netzero, One Spirit, OneTravel.com, Orbitz.com, PersonalCreations.com, Petco.com, PetMeds.com, Priceline.com, Redcats USA, Ritzcamera online, Riverdeep.com, Romans.com, SandBox, skinstore.com, SmartBargains.com, sportsnmore.com, STAPLES, Strawberry.com, The Learning Company, theshoeplanet.com, TigerDirect.com, TimeLife.com, Travelocity.com, uBid.com, United Online, videomoviehouse.com, VistaPrint.com, vitacost.com, Walter Drake, Webstakes.com, WeLoveMacs.com, WirelessEmporium.com, Yahooshopping.com, ZDnet.

Leaving us kind of limited in our choices.

Yet SD&R still claim "We make every effort to be clear and straightforward in our marketing. Our offer page describes the programme and its benefits in detail; the cost of membership is referenced 6 times throughout the page and the fact the credit or debit card will be billed is referenced 3 times. To join the programme, a consumer enters his / her name, home and email addresses, credit or debit card details and a personalised password."

Which is strange because once you are on their website it clearly states;

"To become a Shopper Discounts & Rewards member, you will either be asked: to (a) provide a basic profile about yourself by filling out an online registration form with your name, mailing address, email address and payment information (including credit and/or debit card number and expiration date); or (b) expressly authorize a marketing partner of ours to transfer certain contact and billing information to us (including your mailing address and payment information (including credit and/or debit card number and expiration date). We process such information in accordance with this Privacy Policy. Our marketing partners may have different privacy practices and we encourage you to read their privacy policies."

It seems to be the case that all these companies rely on the fact that the terms state (to them at least) that members input their own bank details, yet this changes as soon as you have left one site to be forwarded onto another. (its not too difficult for a company to grab any other details about you if you have specifically been forwarded on to them - especially if they can inbed themselves into a website as a link (think how pop ups work).

This is why it is too easy to reclaim your money, ALL OF IT, because their is definately something dodgy going on by someone, its far safer to pay off the ones who discover them, than have them scream louder attracting attention from those still "unaware".

http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=1FE...ACF167C99E7984

http://www.facebook.com/notes/photob...e/248986006237

http://www.pizzahut.co.uk/restaurants/faqs.aspx

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/investigat...pper-disc.html

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/bargain...4&in_page_id=5

http://webbetrayal.com/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010...ts-and-rewards

Quote:
Users of websites belonging to several big-name companies – including Ticketmaster, Pizza Hut, Ryanair and TheTrainline.com – have complained that they are being charged £10 a month membership fees after unwittingly signing up with a company called Shopper Discounts & Rewards.
http://www.talktalk.co.uk/money/guar...-you-dear.html

Quote:
Shopper Rewards appears to have adopted a no-quibble refunds policy, but it is clear many of its "members" aren't aware of what's happened, not least because the firm's emails appear prone to being held in spam filters. It admits that some of its vouchers do carry the logo of the partner retailer
The scam is just as popular across the Ocean http://believablelies.blogspot.com/2...sshoppers.html

How do they deal with unauthorized access in US https://www.member-center.com/Forms/...34816DA1B1B87C
Quote:
Money-saving expert Martin Lewis is more forthright. "The way these type of companies market themselves is distasteful," he says. "It looks like you are getting a great deal but it can end up costing you a lot. What I don't understand is why big companies deal with these firms. The income they derive from such deals can't be worth the negative impact these offers have on their brands."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010...ts-and-rewards

Quote:
To obtain the card data, the marketing firms paid nearly $800 million to 88 e-tail stores, including Orbitz, Buy.com, Travelocity, Barnes & Noble, Pizza Hut, and Priceline. While some of these stores have otherwise established solid reputations, the material disclosed by Senate investigators indicates these retailers sold their customers' financial data to third parties--something that experts say many consumers are unaware of and would likely find abhorrent.

Sen. John Rockefeller, chairman of the Senate committee wants Visa, MasterCard, and American Express to answer questions how marketers were allowed to buy consumer credit card information from top retail sites.


The sheer number of retailers accused of betraying customer trust and the scrutiny now being focused on Visa, MasterCard, and American Express is turning the situation into an unprecedented scandal for the e-commerce sector.

The reason that the commerce committee may be turning the focus onto the credit card companies is that they were in a prime position to halt the deceptive marketing practices long ago, experts say.


To understand what responsibility the credit card companies may have had, you have to know how the controversial marketing practices worked.


First, a consumer who is finishing up a transaction at a Web store would be presented with a pop-up ad. An offer for a cash-back reward of, say, $10 is written in large print. Customers are informed, again in bold text that they can get the reward if they enter their e-mail address.


Further down and written in much more obscure text are the full terms of the deal. That's how customers are notified that by entering their e-mail address they will effectively be agreeing to join a membership program and allowing their retailer to turn over their credit card information so it can be charged monthly, perhaps as much as $20.



For this reason, the three marketing firms and their retail partners say the whole thing is legal and above board. All the terms are there in the fine print and it's not their fault that consumers don't read them.


Congressional investigators turned up documents, however, that showed they were well aware of the potential deception. Investigators presented internal e-mails from the marketing firms that illustrate how they purposely employ tactics to mislead consumers while staying within the letter of the law.


According to members of the commerce committee, it's a classic loophole play. In addition, documents show that the marketers told retail partners that they were much more likely to make money if the retailers gave them their customers' credit card information rather than to having to ask for it from the cardholder.


That's where American Express, Visa and Mastercard come in.
Had the big card companies followed their own rules, these dubious marketing tactics would have failed long ago, said Ben Edelman, an assistant professor at Harvard Business School who focuses on electronic marketplaces.


Visa, MasterCard, and American Express require that only a cardholder, not any intermediary or merchant, provide a credit card number to complete a transaction.



This is key as many consumers are completely unsuspecting that an e-mail address is enough to authorize a purchase, according to Edelman, who offered written testimony during last month's committee hearing held on the marketers.



"Consumers naturally expect that if they don't type their card numbers they won't be charged," Edelman said. "That's a good rule of thumb, and it's true almost everywhere, but not at these tricky sites."



Another question that Visa, MasterCard, and American Express must answer is why they appear to have ignored what appears, according to the government's report, to be a large volume of customer complaints about Webloyalty, Affinion, and Vertrue.


The card companies have rules in place to boot merchants off their systems who have too many customer complaints or "chargebacks," the term used to describe the refunding of money to a credit card owner who has been charged incorrectly or fraudulently.


The Senate committee has indicated it will hold another hearing sometime after the start of the year and intends to call to testify the CEOs of the marketing firms and many of the Web stores. Perhaps, the chiefs of Visa and the other card companies should be there as well.


"Credit card networks have hundreds of pages of rules detailing every requirement of banks, retailers, and credit card users," Edelman said. "The rules exactly prohibit these practices. But what good are rules when they are not enforced."

And Finally.............

http://adam.rosi-kessel.org/pdf/webl..._complaint.pdf

Original and FULL US COUNTY COURT conscript;

Francis63

I got caught for this yesterday. I was on PayPal's "Thank you for your payment" page having bought an item from a private seller on E-bay. A box was on that page saying "We are giving you a £10 CASH REWARD and a 30-day trial to Rewards First". I naturally assumed that this was a 'reward' for making so many E-bay purchases recently (as E-bay have done in the past).

It said "Click here for an exclusive 'Thank You' reward - Claim your £10 cash reward as an E-bay customer today"
"Complete the 3 steps below to receive a £10 cash reward on your current E-bay purchase"

You then had to enter your email address and credit card number and expiry date.

I assumed the credit card number was so that they could credit you with the £10!

Not for one moment did I think my account might be debited because there was no 'amount' or cost stated anywhere. Unless you agree to a price thery cannot charge you can they?

At no point did I tick a box to agree to any terms and conditions, however having entered my email address etc. a new page popped up for 'Credit Rating Matters' and another offer. I ticked the 'NO THANKS' box, but was directed to a 'Thank you' page anyway! This is when my suspicions were aroused BUT...
....when I clicked on any of the boxes for futher information (i.e. Contact Us or [EMAIL="membersavings@a.rewardfirst.co.uk"]membersavings@a.rewardfirst.co.uk[/EMAIL]) this message comes up:-

"Could not perform this operation because the
default mail client is not properly installed."

I then received an email in myhotmail inbox, saying I had joined their programme:-
Welcome to Rewards First! You're receiving this email because you have accepted a special invitation to try Rewards First.

Don't forget that you are eligible to claim your reward for joining Rewards First! Simply print out the order confirmation page from your purchase per the terms of the offer and post this to Rewards First PO BOX 587 Edgware Middlesex HA8 4DX together with details of your Membership ID, name, address and telephone number.

So, your reward isn't even automatic! It seems you have send off for it and give your address as well, which is probably the final missing peice of the puzzle that they need!

Frankly I am shocked that secure companies that we trust have anything to do with these dubious practices. :mad:

ochapple

To whom it may concern, thank you for your email today.

I look forward indeed to receiving my £30 back which I neither expected to be taken from me, nor actually agreed to being taken in the first place wittingly.

The problem and unnecessary concern you have given me and others, seemingly from public comment about your scheme on Google, is all about “fair and reasonable” customer/consumer expectation.

If an advert says to you whilst you are in the midst and process of buying goods or services, “ Get a £15 discount”, which effectively was the message conveyed by the advert on the Trainline.com website, your expectation as a customer is that by filling in the required information put in front of you, that you will get that £15 discount on THAT very purchase as advertised. That is the expectation.

Go into any reputable shop physically, pick an item or service which says on it, “Get 10% discount”, or “Get 10% off” , and you would get exactly that when you go and pay for it - Quod Erat Demonstrandum. Did I get that? Irrefutably no!

You see offers shops which might be along the lines of, ‘get loyalty stamps each time you visit us, or get our loyalty points card’, and yes you will get a bonus or reward facility of some kind, but the consumer would still not expect nor be expected to be charged for the very privilege, nor for providing that merchant with their loyalty.

The expectation, in this case against you , I am afraid, are simply not met. You do not get a discount for the purchase, after going through the rigmarole of completing your discount application form during the payment process. You get exactly nothing other than a “promise” of discounts in the future or on your next purchase. By the way I’d love to see how you claim that! What rigmarole would I have to go through – please show me.

Here in lies the bastion of consumer protection, where “misleading” information is, a court would find, indefensible here because the consumer expectation has been negatively obfuscated with woolly advertising linking to signup forms whilst finalising a purchase, where the customer is as usual indeed required to complete a credit card payment form in order to receive just the item or service they are in fact shopping for in the first place. We don’t then expect to also get charged for the so called loyalty and discount on top of this purchase. This is just the way your company has spun and worked the processes to legally “con” the consumer.

I believe I have a very solid argument to suggest to the OFT that this is misleading advertising coupled with an obfuscating payment process deliberately put in-front of consumers whilst they are believing to be paying for goods or services, in order that you may lure and legally trap them into your so called loyalty scheme which they end up paying for unwittingly.

With the negative comments available from the public on Google supporting this case I should think it will be investigated.

What do you have to say?

Faithfully,

Oliver Chapple

marleyboy

Perfect Chapple