Cesar Millan Dog Whisperer

foreign_correspondent

Well, I have been strangling the dog and she is no better at all so far.

LittleTinker

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

Well, I have been strangling the dog and she is no better at all so far.

As I asked you on the other thread.....

Why is it if anyone else says anything to you, you are fine....but the minute I say anything then you are nasty?

I have responded to you no different than you have responded to some other posters.....in a direct way.....so why do you automatically respond to me in a derogatory and belittleing manner?

foreign_correspondent

LittleTinker wrote: »

Just goes to show that you know nothing about him, his methods, his reputation and he working team other than what you have seen on a short clip.

As the other poster pointed out.....it may be a good idea if you were to watch a broad spectrum of programs and perhaps read some literature and then you can comment with knowledge.

LT when you speak to people like this, what do you expect?

I explained that these were my observations based on one short clip, and that I have not watched much CM. I do speak from an angle of understanding the risks of physical interventions, and asphyxia is a key risk, especially when applying any pressure to the neck area, which CM clearly does in my opinion, both with his hand and a slip lead tightened around the dogs neck - I explained that thse were my own observations, and that I, personally found this worrying. You don't, fine, but please do not accuse other people of being rude when you are so very rude yourself.

ok?

UKTigerlily

LittleTinker wrote: »

Yes...I see the word sarcasm in the dictionary....how is this useful to me or the discussion?

You asked why FC would want to strangle a Dog in a way that made me think you didn't realise the way in which she was posting is all

LittleTinker

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

LT when you speak to people like this, what do you expect?

I explained that these were my observations based on one short clip, and that I have not watched much CM. I do speak from an angle of understanding the risks of physical interventions, and asphyxia is a key risk, especially when applying any pressure to the neck area, which CM clearly does in my opinion, both with his hand and a slip lead tightened around the dogs neck - I explained that thse were my own observations, and that I, personally found this worrying. You don't, fine, but please do not accuse other people of being rude when you are so very rude yourself.

ok?

I havent been rude?....This is what i am not understanding.

Earlier on in the thread, several people have disagreed with you and you have just carried on with the debate, no problem. You have posted answers like mine....that say your thoughts and your feelings.....and noone is too bothered.

That post I made was a comment on the post before.....and I didnt even look to see who wrote it.....I dont always.....and it isnt any different to my writing style with anyone.

It was only when you posted back and started being 'funny' that I knew it was your post.

I post lots on here.....helpful advise or whathave you....and the only ones who have any problem with anything I write is you and one or two others.
Even when I say something that is so obviously nice, you make a nasty comment....like on the other thread just now......Why???

Dont try to tell me its because Im rude, so therefore you are, because that is not right at all.

ETA You know...I am so upset by that you know.....because I meant my post as nothing more than helpful in that to watch CM more deeply might help anyone to understand a bit more.

Soubrette

I actually like Cesar Milan although his methods do not suit me. I have watched a few of his programmes and expected to thoroughly hate them and was pleasantly surprised.

In my opinion he is mostly a behaviourist, using classic, operant and learning through observation. He dresses it up as his own by talking about energies etc.

I believe that it would be hard to tell a shut down dog by its expression alone, dogs are much better are reading our expressions than we are at reading theirs. A shut down dog would not suddenly bounce back after being held down by someone. A classic experiment showing this type of learned helplessness (or shutdown) is one where dogs are electrocuted in a pen they cannot get out of until they realise there is no escape, they then accept electrocution with no attempt to avoid it. They are then transferred to a pen where they can escape but they no longer bother trying to escape electrocution (how cruel we are sometimes :rolleyes: ). Shutdown is much longer term condition than anything I've ever seen on the show.

I have only seen him use an electric collar once although I admit to not viewing every single programme, and the impression I got was that he was using it because of the danger of the situation and it was the preferred tool of the owners.

The injured dog in his psychology centre occured with a different dog trainer that was using the equipment there - I have only ever heard of this one instance.

None of the dogs appear bear any lasting grudge against Cezar and none of them appear to cower away from him after the session. His own dogs appear to adore him.

Like I said, his training methods aren't to my taste but I'll bet they work waaaay faster than the techniques I use aka bribery and corruption

In short, no one really knows what goes on in a dogs mind, we think we know but mostly are using primate information on a canine - hence we believe our dog looks guilty when it's been naughty when we've been away or that when it turns its back on us that it is sulking.

We can postulate what it might mean through observing other dogs - turning the back is an appeasement gesture, the dog reads our body language and knows we're angry etc but we don't really know.

I believe that even Cesar Milan admits that a few dogs are too much for him in his books and I can't find anything except from other dog trainers/workers actually slagging him off on the net and I have had a good look for articles from dog owners hoping to find some of the dissatisfied ones. I've come up with nothing so far

Sou

foreign_correspondent

I am sorry, I can watch CM till the cows come home, but he will not have any credibility with me since seeing that clip. He may use some useful, good methids, but that is beyond acceptable in my book, just from a safety/risk point of view.

LT - I will disgagree with you or anyone else, who says that what he does there is safe - because it isnt and I can watch the evidence with my own eyes.

Maybe you need to think aout your use of words because you do come across as being rude, and it clearly is not just me who reads your comments that way - you say yourself that it happens all the time.

foreign_correspondent

seeing as so many other threads have been closed, why is this one still here seven pages later - it is not moneysaving is it???

UKTigerlily

TBH neither is my CKCS one! I dunno why not? I really wish boards like this that are popular could be split into two sections!

foreign_correspondent

aahr you spoke too soon - I have just PM'd you - they have nobbled your CKCS one!