Cesar Millan Dog Whisperer

mrschapman2be

Hmmm is it fact? or is it OPINION??!!!

See below,

'according to research published by academics at the University of Bristol'

OPINION!!!They spent six months with dogs who were not balanced, and decided to blame dog psychology. Open your eyes, you cannot argue with nature, these techniques are not designed to hurt dogs!

foreign_correspondent

mrschapman2be wrote: »

Hmmm is it fact? or is it OPINION??!!!

See below,

'according to research published by academics at the University of Bristol'

OPINION!!!They spent six months with dogs who were not balanced, and decided to blame dog psychology. Open your eyes, you cannot argue with nature, these techniques are not designed to hurt dogs!

I have to say, whether I agree with the outcomes of the study, at least it is based on academic research, whereas your statement is based only on your own thoughts or hypothesis (ie. 'Open your eyes, you cannot argue with nature, these techniques are not designed to hurt dogs!') and with no evidence this is merely opinion.

You can use as many exclamation marks as you like, but it does not make your opinion 'fact'!!!!!

GonzoAston

I personally would never use any of CM training methods, and I no longer will watch his show.

Ive seen him lift dogs in the air by their collar, and the kicking and pinning are unescersary IMHO. There are plenty of other ways to distract a dog, and to be honest, plenty of more humane and pleasant ways for the dog.

Someone said earlier that they havent seen him using a shock collar. I suggest (as I cant get onto youtube) they search for the episode where he was teaching his PitBull not to go near snakes. There were snakes in cages (he was with Will Smiths wife) on the floor, and when ever the dog went near one, he got shocked. It wasnt a water or air collar, it was an electric one.

His training methods only lead the dog NOT to SHOW agression, they dont teach it not to be aggressive. Then, if they are too scared to show any feelings what-so-ever, it will manifest itself in other ways, or build up to a point where the dog will just kick off (couldnt think of a better word )

Anywho, thats my Tuppenceworth on CM. My oppinion is never try his training techniques, unless you want problems.

mrschapman2be

foreign_correspondent wrote: »

i have to say, whether i agree with the outcomes of the study, at least it is based on academic research, whereas your statement is based only on your own thoughts or hypothesis (ie. 'open your eyes, you cannot argue with nature, these techniques are not designed to hurt dogs!') and with no evidence this is merely opinion.

You can use as many exclamation marks as you like, but it does not make your opinion 'fact'!!!!!

erm - i never stated that it was fact - can you read luv? I am saying, if they can publish their opinions, so can i. Thats exactly what it is - o*p*i*n*i*o*n :d

lisawood78

GonzoAston wrote: »

Someone said earlier that they havent seen him using a shock collar. I suggest (as I cant get onto youtube) they search for the episode where he was teaching his PitBull not to go near snakes. There were snakes in cages (he was with Will Smiths wife) on the floor, and when ever the dog went near one, he got shocked. It wasnt a water or air collar, it was an electric one.

.

Sorry to snip your post, didn't want to take up lots of room quoting all of it.
Have to say here, that I have seen the episode where Daddy is taught about the snakes, and yes it is quite extreme, but surely when you live in a place where dangerous snakes are common place, a very brief mild shock (I think they showed you the trainer or Ceaser using it on themselves but I may be wrong) a handful of times (which was at least all they showed) is better than a long and painful injury, and quite possible death from a snakebite?
Daddy certainly didn't seem too upset by the incident from what i can recall, but enough fro him to amend his behaviour.
Just my opinion.
Oh yes, while i'm at it, I have 2 Great Danes, and they pin each other to the ground all the time, we also use this method on them if they are getting out of hand (one hand on neck only following down command) no pressure is used, we see this action as showing dominance and it restores calm to our household without instilling any fear in our beloved pets.

I do like CM, but I prefer Dog Borstal

Raksha

lisawood78 wrote: »

Oh yes, while i'm at it, I have 2 Great Danes, and they pin each other to the ground all the time, we also use this method on them if they are getting out of hand (one hand on neck only following down command) no pressure is used, we see this action as showing dominance and it restores calm to our household without instilling any fear in our beloved pets.

I do like CM, but I prefer Dog Borstal

I don't think you can be watching your dogs very well if you believe one forces the other to the floor. I believe what you are seeing is one drop in submission to the other, there will be no force from the other dog.

CM V DB? Dog Borstal has now been dropped by the BBC - why do you think that is?

lisawood78

I am watching my dogs perfectly well thankyou,
I have seen both, on many occassion use force, including their whole bodies to hold each other down, until the one underneath gives up and lies still, now that bit is submission yes, but when one is lying on her forearms (so to speak) using all her considerable weight to force the other over that is not.
My dogs are perfectly happy, love each others company and are generally well behaved, but they have play session with each other, and sometimes one decides to show the other who is in charge in this manner, they do it to each other equally also.

I have no idea why they dropped Dog borstal, I was merely expressing an opinion, adding on that this really wasn't the point of my post.

Raksha

Dog Borstal was dropped because the BBC finally recognised that not all the methods were used were suitable for the general public to use without professional advice following a campaign by the APDT (that's Association of Pet Dog Trainers). A similar campaign in America has resulted in the warnings on CM programme not to 'try this at home'.

There's an interesting book by Temple Grandin which explains why CM believes his methods work - it's because he's using them amongst a large pack of dogs which live together - a replication of the large 'wolf packs' kept in captivity, which were originally observed to form opinions on genuine wolf pack behaviour - these wolf packs did not behave like a genuine wolf pack because they are composed of generally unrelated wolves who WILL use dominance to create a hierachy. A 'natural' wolf pack already has a pack leader - the Father of the pups, which means the pups retain their respect of their Father, much like a human child. Domestic dogs are very like junvenile wolves, and stay that way - which is why we need to be their dog parents in human skin.

orlao

Raksha wrote: »

Dog Borstal was dropped because the BBC finally recognised that not all the methods were used were suitable for the general public to use without professional advice following a campaign by the APDT (that's Association of Pet Dog Trainers). A similar campaign in America has resulted in the warnings on CM programme not to 'try this at home'.

IMHO, this is the problem with any of the TV shows, it is a matter of opinion as to what method works best for an individual and their dog but the real danger is trying any training method without either professional help or a deep understanding (which you are unlikely to have from a tv series) of the theory and practice of a type of training. In CMs case, he is advocating a method where timing and the trainers force of character is everything - when joe public tries this there is a very good chance that they will make the dog worse and also end up being bitten.

Raksha

Purely reward based training doesn't have any of these issues (but doesn't make brilliant TV unfortunatly )